2015 Kawasakis

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dank

Ponch, I have been especially impressed by the water pumps on the K1600s. None of the metrics have yet come up with an option like that: a "must replace frequently and carry a spare just in case" water pump. Shows the innovative thought and excellence of engineering that characterize the BMWS!

I think the water pump issue is ridiculous too. According to a member in my local club, every K1600 sold in AZ before june 2012 had at least one water pump replaced. He's on #4. Water pumps are a mature technology. I'd never buy a K1600 due to some of the issues, even if they get it bucked out, which they will. Not enough qa/qc in hell to figure this shit out ahead of time. FWIW, BMW didn't design the engine or water pump or make the water pump on the K1600. The engine was designed by the engineering firm Ricardo, which is well known for engine designs. So now when BMW has an issue, they have to go back to them and ask, WTF? I think the boxer engines are done in house. The 650 singles are rotax, IIRC. If I ever get another one, which is in doubt, it would be a R1200 of some sort.

[schoeney]

Originally Posted by ponch

Look at the options available for an RT or KGTL. No metric or domestic comes close. The UI for the GW is something from the 80s. It's hideous and inefficient. Apple or BMW could teach Honda about UI. I also wouldn't compare Apple with metrics. Steve Jobs was a big fan of BMW motorcycles and Mercedes cars. That's the level that he was shooting for, not toyota or honda. Lastly, while BMW bikes have some issues, it's not like they are littering the roads with parts and stranded riders.

Some people drive Chevy's, some drive Mercedes, both will get you where you want to go, but they are not the same.

Like I said. Depends on what is important to the buyer.

Does it really matter what Jobs was shooting for or what bikes he liked? ..Apple is not leading edge but is more the dependable (bug free) product like Toyota. Yep it is splitting hairs but that is what we are doing in this bike discussion as well.

I recently had a revelation that I have a hang up buying non-Jap cars and bikes because I perceive I am stepping down in quality.

Currently wanting more bells and whistles than my 2013 Honda Accord offers...the shoe is on the other foot in this case...I can find other cars that offer what I want in a little higher price point but don't want to step down in build quality..Thus my revelation.... Mercedes, Chrysler, Chevrolet, and BMW are a big drop in quality ( vs Honda & Toyota) IMHO. Weird uh?

I will probably buy domestic and make sure it is always under warranty.

[dmyers]

European especially German engineering used to be way beyond everyone else
They still are Vary good but everyone else has caught up considerably
As for motorcycles, They are all good there is always a dud somewhere but most of the big company's are capable of building amazing products if they really want to,,,H2,,
The BMW boxer is one of the best motors ever built and any problem you ever have is almost always on the software side. The motors are bullet proof.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by schoeney

Like I said. Depends on what is important to the buyer.

Does it really matter what Jobs was shooting for or what bikes he liked? ..Apple is not leading edge but is more the dependable (bug free) product like Toyota. Yep it is splitting hairs but that is what we are doing in this bike discussion as well.

I recently had a revelation that I have a hang up buying non-Jap cars and bikes because I perceive I am stepping down in quality.

Currently wanting more bells and whistles than my 2013 Honda Accord offers...the shoe is on the other foot in this case...I can find other cars that offer what I want in a little higher price point but don't want to step down in build quality..Thus my revelation.... Mercedes, Chrysler, Chevrolet, and BMW are a big drop in quality ( vs Honda & Toyota) IMHO. Weird uh?

I will probably buy domestic and make sure it is always under warranty.

Apple's operating system is leading edge. Windows is a steaming piece of shit. The reason for making their own hardware is simplified integration and reliability, but Apple's advantage has always been the OS.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dmyers

European especially German engineering used to be way beyond everyone else
They still are Vary good but everyone else has caught up considerably
As for motorcycles, They are all good there is always a dud somewhere but most of the big company's are capable of building amazing products if they really want to,,,H2,,
The BMW boxer is one of the best motors ever built and any problem you ever have is almost always on the software side. The motors are bullet proof.

Look at the options offered by BMW. No one comes close. As far as the H2 goes, it needs a supercharger and the street legal version doesn't have that much more HP than a top of the line liter bike and then there's other stuff that make a race ready bike good. Look at the S1000RR and the HP4 version. The stuff that comes on the bike is amazing and it's about 200HP without a blower and lighter too.

[dmyers]

What it has always come down to is MONEY!!. How much are you willing to pay for a bike or options that you won't or can't even use. There are few people that can push any bike to its limits. So how much are you willing to pay so you can thump your chest and say my bike is faster or handles better or has this option or that or is a smoother ride than your bike when in reality in your hands it isn't I have friends who can outrun me in the twistys no matter what we are . Some
Integrated options are really nice and some you can get better after market.
There is a BIG difference between. Almost 200hp and over 300hp that being said I have a friend with a turbo zx14 That dyno's at 455hp and cost half as much as an H2.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dmyers

What it has always come down to is MONEY!!. How much are you willing to pay for a bike or options that you won't or can't even use. There are few people that can push any bike to its limits. So how much are you willing to pay so you can thump your chest and say my bike is faster or handles better or has this option or that or is a smoother ride than your bike when in reality in your hands it isn't I have friends who can outrun me in the twistys no matter what we are . Some
Integrated options are really nice and some you can get better after market.
There is a BIG difference between. Almost 200hp and over 300hp that being said I have a friend with a turbo zx14 That dyno's at 455hp and cost half as much as an H2.

The 300hp version isn't street legal. It's useless. I'd never ride one anyway, same with the ZX14 or S1000RR. Too small and tight of ergos. They are made for jockey sized people.

[ponch]

One last thing about BMWs and reliability. The BMW Motorrad USA has a Roadside Assistance Program that comes with every new bike and covers for the duration of the warranty. A disabled bike will be towed to the "nearest dealer" without any mileage limitation.

Also includes Trip Interruption: "For mechanical disablement covered by warranty, expenses for food (excluding alcohol), lodging, alternate transportation, and reunite up to $500 incurred per day within 5 days of disablement. Must be 100 miles or more from primary residence. Customer must include a valid BMW Motorrad USA dealer paid receipt with the claim."

That's pretty good. I think HD has something like that. I doubt the others do, at least not standard.

[dank]

Ponch, that is good. Honda does not have a similar program.....they just build bikes of high quality so they don't fail!

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dank

Ponch, that is good. Honda does not have a similar program.....they just build bikes of high quality so they don't fail!

Every manufacturer has issues. Remember the frame issues on early Goldwings? Even the revered Nomad has silly things like cam chains that stretch too much, drive shafts and steering stem bearings that aren't greased and clutch springs that wear out prematurely. The question becomes, how does the manufacturer and dealers deal with it? From what I have seen, HD probably has the best customer service, the big 4 the worst. There's more to the deal than just initial cost and even reliability and it shows with brand loyalty. It's a conundrum for sure.

[landman]

knock on wood,in more then 50 years of riding I have never needed roadside assistance for a motorcycle.with the exception of one Harley they were all either Suzuki,kawasaki or
Honda motorbikes.there has only been a hand full of repairs needed,all covered under warranty.

[ponch]

I've never needed it either, but if they offer it as part of the deal, WTF? I'll take it.

[petenomad]

Originally Posted by landman

knock on wood,in more then 50 years of riding I have never needed roadside assistance for a motorcycle.with the exception of one Harley they were all either Suzuki,kawasaki or
Honda motorbikes.there has only been a hand full of repairs needed,all covered under warranty.

Never had a flat tire? Lucky you.

[dmyers]

Kawasaki has ROK. Plus I can get on a couple of websights or even facebook and someone will be on there way to get me in short order.
As for BMW You have the famous anonymous book. All members of the BMWMRA can call and get help no mater where you are. Me and my brother have helped my dad and uncle go pick up dozens of riders over the years.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dmyers

Kawasaki has ROK. Plus I can get on a couple of websights or even facebook and someone will be on there way to get me in short order.
As for BMW You have the famous anonymous book. All members of the BMWMRA can call and get help no mater where you are. Me and my brother have helped my dad and uncle go pick up dozens of riders over the years.

There are two orgs: BMWMOA and BMWRA. The MOA has the anonymous book, which I am part of, I don't know about the RA and I am a member of that too. The thing is, the roadside is free for 3 years when buying a new bike and can be extended for $100 a year, which is pricey. I have roadside with my insurance and I think it was 5 or 6 bucks a year, but it doesn't include all the stuff the BMW does, like hotel, travel and concierge to arrange it. Then there is the local MOA club I belong to. They have a trailer that anyone in the club can use.