|
12-09-2011, 02:27 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 6,772
|
Maybe this is a dumb suggestions, so please in enlighten me. Why wouldn't you have just filled the groves with some high temp gasket maker and been done with it?
__________________
Jared
VBA #1051 (Former President) |
|
12-09-2011, 09:14 AM | #18 | |
Sr. Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SOUTH FLORIDA
Posts: 1,210
|
Quote:
I now know i have 2 perfectly flat surfaces with adequate o-ring crush and an intake manifold with no leaks at the intake ports, and it's a permanent fix. RACNRAY
__________________
"TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART, NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES" WITH OVER 46 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION! "WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY" |
|
|
12-11-2011, 12:26 AM | #19 |
Top Contributor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Posts: 6,272
|
Congratulations for finally coming out of your pig closet!
__________________
Jeff Platz VBA #0002 VBA VP-Global B.A.C.A. Hoss 2005 "StrongBear" Black/Silver Todd and BD |
|
12-11-2011, 09:01 AM | #20 |
Sr. Contributor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,017
|
I am saying if they found out through whatever reason. Now, if a Kawasaki dealership isn't familiar enough with their own product, then that is a sad fact.
__________________
Ponch VBA 0019 VROC 8109-R BMWMOA 162849 BMWRA 41335 BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best. My Motorrad Blog My Motorrad YouTube 2009 BMW R1200RT Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2 Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11 Login or Register to Remove Ads |
|
12-11-2011, 09:05 AM | #21 |
Sr. Contributor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,017
|
Using sealant where it was designed to use only o-rings speaks for itself. O-rings shouldn't need sealant and that would point to an underlying problem that ray found and fixed. I find it disappointing that Kawasaki would have such poor design and quality control. I wonder where these parts are made?
__________________
Ponch VBA 0019 VROC 8109-R BMWMOA 162849 BMWRA 41335 BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best. My Motorrad Blog My Motorrad YouTube 2009 BMW R1200RT Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2 Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11 |
|
12-12-2011, 11:29 AM | #22 |
Sr. Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SOUTH FLORIDA
Posts: 1,210
|
I have acquired about 500 miles on the skoot since i did this mod. Not only is the engine running better, but it is running better than it EVER did, indicating to me that at some point in my ownership there were the beginnings of intake leaks, maybe even tiny ones since new.
Before i did this mod i was starting to NOT enjoy riding, with the poor throttle response, the hic-cup off idle, the backfiring. Now it is a joy to ride. I did add a bit of fuel to the PCV to completely eliminate what ever popping on decel was left. Gas mileage is better, the engine runs smoother, sounds better, and the power pulses feel different in a better way. The engine is "happier" and so am I!! I do believe all Vulcans have some amount of vacuum leaks that may be affecting the way our skoots are running. I know it ended up bothering me enuff that i am glad i did this mod. I just spoke to a forum member that has noticed a deterioration in performance on his Nomad. He will be bringing down his skoot as soon as he has time for a couple of baseline dyno runs and we will perform our intake vacuum leak tests on his skoot. More to come... RACNRAY
__________________
"TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART, NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES" WITH OVER 46 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION! "WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY" |
|
12-16-2011, 07:46 PM | #23 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beecher City IL 62414
Posts: 320
|
Ray Thanks for the posting pics of your work makes me think I need to vheck mine. Wish you were closer hard to find a shop that takes as much pride in their work as you.
|
|
12-17-2011, 07:56 AM | #24 |
Sr. Contributor
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,287
|
Thanks Ray, great post!
__________________
Gerry Martineau / 802 VT / VBA #0892 /[email]glmjgm@gmail.com[email] |
|
12-17-2011, 09:44 AM | #25 |
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lawrenceville, Georgia
Posts: 905
|
Looking forward to finding out about the Nomad. Thanks Ray......
__________________
Hank Brote W1HCB 2008 Diablo Black Nomad Lawrenceville, GA VBA # 1234 VROC # 32837 Patriot Guard Riders Naval Advisory Group Vietnam 69-70 |
|
12-17-2011, 09:58 AM | #26 |
Sr. Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SOUTH FLORIDA
Posts: 1,210
|
I have had a couple of conversations with a Vulcan owner that after reading this thread pulled his intake apart.
What he found was WORSE than mine. The rubber seals between the manifold and heads were torn pretty bad-from the factory! The stand-off posts on his throttle bodies were HIGHER than mine (i can't remember the amount) and like my t/b and intake manifold BOTH surfaces were highly WARPED. He has a friend with a machine shop so they are duplicating what i did, i am waiting for his results. Having been a m/c mechanic for over 35 years i have seen many instances of the sometimes HUGE differences allowed by mass-production methods. This shows up on my dyno, where i have seen up to 15 H.P. differences in completely stock bikes of the same year/make/model, and seems to be showing up in this example. Funny thing, the sealing surface of the intake manifold IS MACHINED, not in a "AS CAST" form like the t/b's are, so poor quality control is certainly an issue here. MORE TO COME... RACNRAY
__________________
"TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART, NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES" WITH OVER 46 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION! "WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY" |
|
12-18-2011, 04:38 PM | #27 |
Sr. Contributor
|
Hey Ray,
glad to see someone move that air temp sensor first! My 2006 Nomad had the worst pinging problem and I tried the resistor and TPS changing and nothing really worked to the level I liked. The resistor sounded promising as I saw it done on Gadget's page. After failing and not stopping the pinging I bought a TFI and was done with it. Even with the TFI the ECU tuning by air temp was a little off. The bike ran well enough but I found that if I tuned the first pot in 60 degree weather compared to 100 degree weather the tuning was drastically different. The stock ECU was still messing with my modified richer settings. Thinking about why the resistor mod failed it suddenly dawned on me (I hate it when that happens!). Gadget's site shows a spread sheet how the resistor changes based on the ambient air temp (outdoors). That's the problem, the air temp behind the dog bowl where the sensor is located I've measured 275 degrees! No matter what resistor you had at 275 that bike is still getting leaned out to the max by the ECU.. that's the problem, as the bike gets hotter the ECU keeps getting leaner to maintain the air/fuel ration which makes the bike hotter and so on and so on. Well yesterday I did your mod and removed the air temp sensor from the right side dog bowl and moved it to behind the chrome covers on the triple tree. I had always ran the standard 3,5 1, 9 on the TFI or near there... Just to see if this would work I turned the setting on near the minimum 2,2 1,9 and put mid-grade gas and took a 140 mile ride this morning in cool weather. I also mounted the crash bar covers which help promote pinging in warmer days by keeping the engine warmer. I was half expecting to hear that death rattle all day long! The bike ran way different, didn't ping, and riding 2 up averaging a true 70-75 I got 40mpg's and the Nomad just ran better. I guess the ECU operates better with the air temp sensor reading 65 degrees instead of 275 behind the dog bowl!! I almost wonder now if everyone moved their air temp sensor if they would need a aftermarket fuel processor?
__________________
I love my Victory Cross Country Tour 106. Smells like Victory! Ultra's are Limited There are two types of Harley riders. Those that trailer them and those that push them. The most Interesting Man in the World "Find the things in life you don't do well and don't do those things" Member # 0005 |
|
12-18-2011, 05:03 PM | #28 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: (SE Louisiana)
Posts: 8,340
|
Great information in this thread. Thanks Ray and BD.
__________________
2016 Electra Glide Ultra Limited CVO Palladium Silver / Phantom Blue 110 cu in SE 2012 Electra Glide Ultra Limited (Traded 6/22/16) Tequila Sunrise / HD Orange Vance & Hines true dual headers Rinehart 4" slip ons Screamin Eagle Super Tuner Screamin Eagle Stage 1 intake Dyno tuned H.O.G.# 4514015 2007 Nomad 1600 (Traded 6/23/12) VBA #482 |
|
12-18-2011, 05:23 PM | #29 |
Sr. Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Makawao, Hawaii
Posts: 1,409
|
Ray and Brad,
This is an interesting theory about the location of the air temp sensor. I've always wondered why it is mounted on the intake if the sensor is actually designed to read ambient outside temp. At speed I wounder if the air passing thru the air box actually has enough time to heat up to the temp of the air box [caused by motor heat] or if it actually is reading ambient temp [I would think the amount of air being passed thru does not actually heat up to the engine temp.]. Also I wounder if the temp sensor actually reads the ambient air temp or is affected by the temp of the metal airbox instead of the actual air temp. I have a Hypercharger, stock but de-baffled exhaust and a Cobra TFI set at 3,4,0. The bike has never pinged on 93 or 89 fuel [I've never tried 87] even before I added the Cobra. When I added the Hypercharger I installed the Cobra "just in case" and it has improved my throttle response however the best gas mileage I've gotten is around 38-39 mpg and buddies riding behind me say my exhaust smells rich. I still will get a low idle stumble if I set the idle below 1000 rpm. My plugs look just right, nice golden tan to brown electrodes. I do have the exhaust reed valves removed and get no popping on deceleration at all. Brad you said that as the air temp goes up the ECU wants to make the bike leaner. With this in mind, having the air temp sensor reading a lower temp should make the bike run richer as you said. Just looking for comments about this and different opinions. |
|
12-18-2011, 07:24 PM | #30 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: (SE Louisiana)
Posts: 8,340
|
James, After installing my TFI, the pinging remained but much less than before. I tried 87octane fuel but had to move back up to 89 in the warm months. Pulling the trailer up hills caused pinging no matter where I set the pots. I then installed the V&H baggers which increased top end power a little but I still had some pinging. I finished off the power mods by installing Chuckster's dual plate intake which eliminated the crossover tube. I can't make it ping now with 87. Taking the crossover out of the mix definitely cools the intake air. My temp sensor is still located on the intake plate but the air passing over it has to be much cooler.
__________________
2016 Electra Glide Ultra Limited CVO Palladium Silver / Phantom Blue 110 cu in SE 2012 Electra Glide Ultra Limited (Traded 6/22/16) Tequila Sunrise / HD Orange Vance & Hines true dual headers Rinehart 4" slip ons Screamin Eagle Super Tuner Screamin Eagle Stage 1 intake Dyno tuned H.O.G.# 4514015 2007 Nomad 1600 (Traded 6/23/12) VBA #482 |
|