Oil Mix

[ponch]

Originally Posted by highwayman2011

Well, I have run the 5W40 T-6 in my Voyager with no problems. Yes it calls for 10W40 and I still don't see how having an oil that flows better at startup and has the same rating at running temp is bad.

Didn't say it's bad, but you won't go wrong by following the specs either, especially a bike that's under warranty.

[Sin City Stan]

Enough of this. Say you're using 5W-40. It's 5W when you start a cold engine. It's easier to crank. You have better oil flow throughout the cold engine. Then as the oil warms the viscosity increases to 40 (viscosity modifiers at work). 5W-40, 10W-40, 15W-40 and plain old 40 have the same viscosity when the oil is warmed up. It's no thinner. It's no thicker. That's the point of Multi-Grades. See below.

Lifted from the Bel Ray website.
Now lets look at the high temperature test requirements, we will look at the 10W-30 again. The minimum viscosity of the 10W oil at 100C (212F) is 4.1 cSt. Now comes the chemistry magic. We need the 10W-30 oil to provide the high temperature viscosity of SAE 30 oil. The chemists use additives called viscosity improvers that expand as the temperature increases providing the viscosity necessary and when the temperature cools back down the viscosity improvers shrink. You can think of viscosity improvers like a slinky, as the temperature increases the slinky opens up increasing the viscosity. The minimum viscosity of the 30 oil at 100C (212F) is 9.3 cSt and the maximum viscosity has to be <12.5 cSt. The final high temperature test is the High Shear Rate (cP) at 150C (302F) minimum. The high shear test minimum for the 30 oil is 2.6 (cP) this means that the oil must not shear down ( or allow the viscosity improvers to get chopped up) more than the stated amount during the test. Now you know what the multi-viscosity oil designations mean.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Sin City Stan

Enough of this. Say you're using 5W-40. It's 5W when you start a cold engine. It's easier to crank. You have better oil flow throughout the cold engine. Then as the oil warms the viscosity increases to 40 (viscosity modifiers at work). 5W-40, 10W-40, 15W-40 and plain old 40 have the same viscosity when the oil is warmed up. It's no thinner. It's no thicker. That's the point of Multi-Grades. See below.

Lifted from the Bel Ray website.
Now lets look at the high temperature test requirements, we will look at the 10W-30 again. The minimum viscosity of the 10W oil at 100C (212F) is 4.1 cSt. Now comes the chemistry magic. We need the 10W-30 oil to provide the high temperature viscosity of SAE 30 oil. The chemists use additives called viscosity improvers that expand as the temperature increases providing the viscosity necessary and when the temperature cools back down the viscosity improvers shrink. You can think of viscosity improvers like a slinky, as the temperature increases the slinky opens up increasing the viscosity. The minimum viscosity of the 30 oil at 100C (212F) is 9.3 cSt and the maximum viscosity has to be <12.5 cSt. The final high temperature test is the High Shear Rate (cP) at 150C (302F) minimum. The high shear test minimum for the 30 oil is 2.6 (cP) this means that the oil must not shear down ( or allow the viscosity improvers to get chopped up) more than the stated amount during the test. Now you know what the multi-viscosity oil designations mean.

I wouldn't want to go the other way on a new vehicle, meaning running 10w-30 in a vehicle that specs 5w-30. Engines in cars are a lot tighter today. That said, unless you live and ride in a cold climate, I don't see the advantage. I think Quinton Grubbs used spec oil and got 260K out of his Nomad. I wonder what Garry (GV550) uses in his Voyager. He's over 250K now, but he swapped the engine recently. He's from Canada too. Quinton is from GA if I recall.

[cnc]

Originally Posted by ponch

I wouldn't want to go the other way on a new vehicle, meaning running 10w-30 in a vehicle that specs 5w-30. Engines in cars are a lot tighter today. That said, unless you live and ride in a cold climate, I don't see the advantage. I think Quinton Grubbs used spec oil and got 260K out of his Nomad. I wonder what Garry (GV550) uses in his Voyager. He's over 250K now, but he swapped the engine recently. He's from Canada too. Quinton is from GA if I recall.

Most GM's specify 5w30 these days. Wonder how many end up with 10w30 when a owner goes to a non GM shop and they use bulk oil( pumped from a 55gal drum ). I had a 2.8 v6 that was known to have wrist pin issues from oil starvation on cold starts. Never had an issue with mine, but I was always using 5w30.

[gv550]

I have been using Kawasaki 10w40 synthetic in all my Vulcans, also Kawasaki filters. Kawasaki obviously knows how to build engines, and how to spec oil and filters to make them last, why experiment with anything else?
A little side note: I'm currently doing some service work on a friend's bike, my old 800 Drifter, and he brought it here with a K&N oil filter on it. The 800 has its oil filter horizontal and above the starter so it always makes a sloppy mess as the oil drains out of the filter over the starter, but this filter was completely empty! No oil came out as I removed the filter and no oil came out when i turned it open-end-down. So every time this engine is shut off, the oil drains from the filter, and the filter needs to be re-filled when started and the cam journals get no oil pressure. Kawasaki filters have an anti-drainback valve to prevent this. The K&N has a nice hex on it to make it easy to remove, and it may be a dollar less, but not worth the risk in my opinion.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by gv550

I have been using Kawasaki 10w40 synthetic in all my Vulcans, also Kawasaki filters. Kawasaki obviously knows how to build engines, and how to spec oil and filters to make them last, why experiment with anything else?
A little side note: I'm currently doing some service work on a friend's bike, my old 800 Drifter, and he brought it here with a K&N oil filter on it. The 800 has its oil filter horizontal and above the starter so it always makes a sloppy mess as the oil drains out of the filter over the starter, but this filter was completely empty! No oil came out as I removed the filter and no oil came out when i turned it open-end-down. So every time this engine is shut off, the oil drains from the filter, and the filter needs to be re-filled when started and the cam journals get no oil pressure. Kawasaki filters have an anti-drainback valve to prevent this. The K&N has a nice hex on it to make it easy to remove, and it may be a dollar less, but not worth the risk in my opinion.

I always used Bosch filters on my 800 and 1600. With my beemer, I use the OEM for BMW filters, which is Mahle. Same thing.

[Sabre-t]

As someone noted above, most wear is at startup. That does not mean that a thinner cold crank oil is better than the recommended. If it is too thin, you loose the lubricity you need at startup. For the same reason, some mfgs recommend using heavier weight oils, including the CC value, as the engine miles pile up. The primary reason for having CC properties is to get oil on the cylinder wall, more than for flow thru the rest of the engine, though that is important, too, if you live in Alaska or Norway where the oil can turn into a gel in the winter.

The other reason not to use a thinner CC oil is that the engine will use more oil, especially as the engine gets older. Guess what you loose first. The thinners. What starts out as 5W-40 can be more like 10W or even 15W towards the end of it's life depending on how it is formulated.

[Ipack]

The reason I looked into this is ...I myself prefer to change oil often in a shared sump bike . After all the oil is doing triple duty . It's lubing the motor , cooling and lubing the clutch with picks up clutch material and going Tru the trans gears where it gets sheared. Valvoline 10w 40 shears rather quickly as I learned some yrs.back on another bike I had.....had the sample tested at blackstone. Rotella on the other hand is very shear stable , even more so than some of the MC oil tested . So with my short change intervals like 2500 miles it makes no sense for me to run a $ 10.00 a bottle oil when the rotella will hold up just as well or better than most of the MC specific stuff that's way over priced . Then a shell engineer gave his blessing on mixing the 5w 40 and 10w40 .....I like rotella products ....as I had a lot of experience with it from working on motors for 30yrs in large special purpose trucks....will I continue to mix ? I don't know... but it will at least run the 15w 40 as long as it carries the Jason ma rating and I drive a shared sump bike....I alway run mobil 1 20w50 full syn in my harleys.....but that oil stayed in like 5k most often ....

[hlknvlcn60]

I totally guarantee 20/50 will give your big v-twin better protection and parts coating in hot weather than 10/40 will. I put a lot of research into this....the Kawasaki performance motor oil is great lube, I purchase it by the gallon and run the KN303 filter and it works great. The Kaw oil actually holds up very well and takes longer to break down than other lubes. It is reasonably priced too.