Right turns... why so hard?

[ringadingh]

glwilson had the right idea about turning the bike. They are big and can feel intimidating at times. I find what also helps in addition to what he said, is to gear down just before you begin your right hand turn. I find the bike seems to track better through a tight corner by doing this, Also you can power out easier. When I do this it makes taking righthand corners smoother and easier.

[flavor]

I'm only 5'10" tall and been riding for years before I bought the Nomad, (I don't consider myself a great rider by the way, so I'm not blowing my horn). Agreeing with some of the previous posts about a lot of the right hand control issues are just getting used to the Nomad, I'd like to also add that when I put chuckster's risers on, the extra reach they gave me helped me navigate those tight right turns. I found before I installed them I didn't snap the handlebars into the turns as much as I should have. Again, this is along the lines of the slow right turns. The faster rights were never an issue because you don't need to turn the bars as far.

[oldbikers]

nighthawk I had a 1500 Goldwing before the nomad and it was easier to make a right turn from a dead stop than the Nomad I keep telling myself that it is because of the wide handle bars but I think it is me I own ride like a pro and it did help my riding the Goldwing but I don't know there is just something different about the Nomad before the Goldwing I had a 1600 Roadstar and a 750 Honda Magna and I have been riding something off and on since 1962 so I can't help you but I hope somebody can.

Originally Posted by glwilson

With all due respect to CaddmannQ and his years of riding experience; I still insist that practicing the "where you look" technique is essential to good riding skills. CaddmannQ has a good point about being able to see traffic; however once you have practiced this technique in turns to the point of effeciency you will find that you will not be wholly concentrating on it -- it will just become a natural skill allowing you then to concentrate on potholes; oil spots; and traffic through your peripheral view.

Hmmm, I don't think we disagree here at all. ??? Absolutely, practice the proper techiques. Just make sure you have them down before making yourself a target on the street.

[kawbuc]

I noticed the same thing when i got the Nad.Had a 900 Classic before this bike. I havent noticed it for a while. I think i am just getting used to the bike and i have more confidence.?

Maybe the difference between turning right and left has to do with the different hand motions involved in working the clutch and the throttle as you turn the bars. Maybe it has to do with whether you're right handed or left handed. I don't know. They are different. I've just never noticed that one is particularly harder to do than the other.

[billmac]

It seems we like to turn left. Car and motorcycle races, carnival rides, track meets, skating rinks, etc. etc., all seem to have us turning left.

[vaccam]

Right turns are harder for me than left, as well. One thing I noticed, when I am trying to make a tight no-lean turn in either direction, my outside arm just isn't long enough. I have PhatIIs, and they help, but I would still like the grips a bit closer to me. The wide bars don't help much either.

Leaned turns are no problem...

Michael

[dantama]

Originally Posted by caddmannq

I would absolutely NOT advise you to take a bike this heavy out into traffic unless you have full confidence in your ability to maneuver it in the parking lot. If you've gotta think about it--if you've gotta think, "OK now look around over there and that far ahead, because that's where I want the bike to go."--you will NOT be able to properly focus your attention on traffic. You will not be able to avoid that pothole or that oil slick or that chihuahua that you'd normally spot peripherally; because when you're trying to focus too hard on where you need to go your peripheral vision will be worthless.

You've got to be able to focus on traffic and and see road hazards peripherally, and ride the bike without having to think about the mechanics of handling it and making it go where you want it to, before you'll be even marginally safe out on the public streets..

A lot of thoughts there that I agree with. One of the reasons that I think people have an easier time transitioning from dirt bikes to street ones is that they already know how to operate the mechanicals, and they can devote more neurological resources to what is going on around them.

But as you stated, you could ride just fine on your concurs and Nighthawk.

Here's my very long detailed answer to your question. I thought that it deserved a precise answer.


I don't know, but I think you have a mental hiccup about the Nomad. Don't know if you had a scary almost dump it to the right or something to set it off or what? But if you did it just fine on your other bikes, and can do it to the left on the Nomad, I think it's a mental hitch.

As a previous poster said, from a stop a left turn is wider than a right, making it easier. A Nomad can actually be turned 90 degrees from a stop in about 3 feet, and you state that you are having trouble doing it in the whole lane. The first exercise in this video I turn to the left from a stop in 3 feet. Now I'm wondering if I just happened to do it to the left, or if I'm more comfortable going left? I think I was just doing it towards the camera.



As Caddman said, I'd get it down in a parking lot before going out in traffic again. Having as much anxiety as you described isn't conducive to proper concentration. The good news is that because it was no problem with your other bikes, you'll perhaps get it figured out in a day and be fine from there on out.

I would go to a fairly empty lot and stop perpendicular to a row, but back plenty far. Use the row you have your eye on as if you are stopped at a stop sign and pulling out into that lane of travel. Be far enough back that it is fairly easy to do.

Do it over and over, stopping each time so that you are pulling out from a stop. When that gets to be routine, move the imaginary stop sign up a ways, and do that till it becomes routine. Keep moving up until you can easily do it with a distance that is like a stop sign on a residential street.

One thing that you may be uncomfortable with, but you weren't on your other bikes, is the physical sensation of the bike starting to go over. You may have a mental hitch thinking that if it starts to go, you won't be able to stop it and it'll go all the way down. If that is the problem, you will have to just prove to yourself that it isn't going to happen. Once you know that it isn't going to happen, it should become a lot easier.

When turning right from a stop as you described, most of the turning sensation happens right in the first 1/4 of the turn or less. The bike may feel very unstable if you are not used to the sensation. The parking lot exercise I mentioned will make the sensation stop ringing alarm bells that something is wrong. Or that something wrong is about to happen.

If you start with plenty of distance and work in, your body will get desensitised to the sensation. But by the time you get into real world distances I'll explain what you should be doing, and how it feels.

You will be turning the bars and inducing the bike to "fall" inside as you are pulling away. But right after it starts falling you will probably naturally (when the mental hitch is gone) start feeding out more clutch and giving more throttle. Doing that will make the bike come back upright more, turning what would otherwise be an auger into the ground into a graceful arcing turn.

In the 3 foot turn in my video I'll narrate what happens.
At 22 seconds I'm turning the bars all the way to the stops ( for your turns you don't need to be anywhere near the stops).
at 24 seconds I'm feeding some throttle and clutch out, still keeping the bars at the stops.
At 25 seconds the bike takes a pronounced dip towards the ground on the inside, my boot starts pointing to the ground off the board. It's just a totally unnecessary habit I picked up to feel the ground right before boards drag. As soon as the bike makes that pronounced fall inside, I give more clutch and throttle. That extra clutch pulls the bike more upright and I'm starting to let the bars back to a neutral position.
I am now fully 90 degrees turned and lifted back upright and it is still at 25 seconds.
At 26 seconds I've over rotated slightly and make a correction to the right and pull away.

I gave it to you second by second so that you could pause and get all the sequence. But all you really need to know is that when the bike dips in, letting out more clutch and throttle will straighten it back more upright as you are bringing the bars back towards center.

Turning in 3 feet is an extreme example, but it illustrates the point of what sensations you will feel, and how do effectively deal with them.

For a stop sign right turn into the first lane, you won't need to be anywhere near full lock, but you will still feel that initial dip inside sensation. Teach your body during parking lot practice that it is a normal sensation, not a problem sensation.

When you feel it, let more clutch out while giving more throttle. Be looking where you want to go. Eventually you will be able to pull from the stop sign into the first track of the lane no problem. But if at first you go wider, I'd still look at the first track and arc back into it even if you go into the middle third. As your body becomes used to the sensation, the alarm bells won't go off and you won't worry about right turns at all.

It takes guts to be a newbie on the board and admit that your having trouble with a certain bit of riding. Let us know how it progresses and feel free to ask for any clarification.

Good luck.

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by billmac

It seems we like to turn left. Car and motorcycle races, carnival rides, track meets, skating rinks, etc. etc., all seem to have us turning left.

That's counter-clockwise. I wonder if they do these things in a clockwise direction in the Southern Hemisphere? ??? ???

Personally I think it has to do with being a right handed-centric society. I wonder if the majority of people were left handed, if it would be the other way?

I used to play hockey and spent what seems like years on ice skates, it was always easier and seemed more natural to make left turns than right turns. I am right handed, BTW.

[jussmatt]

I too tend to agree with all that has been written. I've said it before also, in another thread, about looking ahead. You will sub-consciously fixate on what you're looking at and head that direction!! How many of us have see that pot hole or item in the middle of the road that we wanted to avoid hitting, only to head straight for it?!?!?! Fixation! Keep the head and eyes up and forward, looking in the direction you intend to travel...cause that's where you're headed!! LOL! Other than that, the practice comments are absolute!!

As to answering the question on "Why is it harder?".... Like CQ...I think it could be a bunch of different or mix of things.... Left/Right handed.... Left/Right eye dominent.... Bars being wider... the reach of the right hand/throttle vs left/clutch is easier to operate in a left turn vs right because of twisting motion of throttle???? Who knows... I did find that making right turns was easier once I put on the Phat II's though.

I want to add one more thing though...since it stuck out in my mind reading the opening thread.... I commend you Nighthawk for not going ahead and pulling out when you were not 100% comfortable doing so!!! Knowing our own limitations, no matter what or how many they might be, is a smart thing!!! Don't force something when it could cost your your life!!! As we all know, the couple of seconds wait are definitely worth it!!!

[schoeney]

Nighthawk...

I have been riding off + on for 34 years....both street and dirt bikes....by no means am I an expert. I did not think I needed the MSF course but took it at the urging from my brother (retired cop....rode cop bikes for several years and also Gold Wings for another 20+ ). I was wrong...it gave me some good tips to practice. It covers exactly what you are struggling with among other things. If you haven't taken it you may want to.

Right hand turns are harder for several reasons (many mentioned above). Most of them are done in tighter turning area. It is a right handed society, we get used to adapting to it regardless of which hand is dominant and it is easier to turn left.....especially when you consider your right hand needs to hold the bar while turning the throttle.

Bottom line is as stated above.....learn the right technique (looking far ahead into the turn) and practice it to perfection before you try it with 3000# vehicles coming at you.

Good luck and you should be commended for recognizing this issue and looking for answers.

[skeeter]

Good question, good input.

[nighthawk700]

Thanks for your input. I'm reading and digesting it all, I'll be printing Dan's out to read with more time.

Actually I did do something to scare myself last year on the Concours, maybe this is the "after affect." I was riding a road called the Snickerville Turnpike (between Rt. 50 and 7 in Northern VA for those who might be familiar). It has one switch back on it, a right turn (for those going northbound, as I was). I've done this turn several times in the past without a problem. This time I was behind a pickup truck. Just as I entered the turn, the truck stopped. There was no reason for him to stop, no on coming traffic or anything, I (and the other guy who was with me) think he did it on purpose. My line was totally thrown off, and the bike was going down on the right side. I was able to hold it up for about 20 seconds, then the weight (almost full tank, 7.5. gallons) was too much, and down she went, breaking a footpeg on the way. The truck then took off.

The other guy ran off the road, but kept his bike up. He came over and helped me to right mine up, and I was able to ride it home. Nothing hurt until the adrenalin wore off, then, oh, so sore!!! That was one of the reasons I sold the Concours and wanted the Nomad. I can flat foot the Nomad, I was tiptoeing on the Concours. So maybe I would have been able to hold the Nomad up, since I would have a better grip on the ground. And if, not, it has the bars to keep from smashing footpegs or mirrors. (it wasn't the only reason I wanted a different bike, was also tired of carbs getting fouled, long warm up times, and after 10 years, just wanted something different)

Anyway, that could be what has me gun-shy on right turns (although I was still able to do them on the Connie pretty well). I teach the MSF class, and I'm able to do okay on the little training bikes. So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's mostly mental. Just need to go and work it out more and more. (and not get myself frustrated and flustered).

I do need to try the "rear-brake while turning" thing though... never did that on the other bikes, but I saw that's also mentioned several times in "Ride like a Pro" so have to try to learn that and see if it helps.

Thanks again, and I will be reading them in more detail later. (have a headache now, so don't want to push it too hard)

[Idaho]

Originally Posted by dhelfritz

Raising the bars will give you more control of the front end. If not stopped completely, add a little throttle into the turn, this will add to your atability. Turn your head and look down the road where you want the bike to go. Do not look down in the turn, look further ahead. All of this should help your stability. Gently power into the turn.

I agree with what fritz says about raising your bars. Try to pry out the caps on the risers and loosen the allen head bolts then rotate the handlebars up. This will give you some clearance between the bars and your knees at full lock. Mine was so close that I had to move my knees out away from the tank in order to turn the bike. Not good. After I rotated the bars up I bought Phat II risers and that helped even more.

Others here also have given great advice. Look where you want to go (lane closest to you) not where you don't want to go (lane where the cars are).