Vaquero intake leaks - Page 8

RACNRAY · 05-30-2013, 02:05 PM

The first and MOST IMPORTANT aspect of fine tuning is achieving the proper air/fuel ratio. This WILL BE fully accomplished by your fuel only PCV.

The second aspect of fine tuning is to alter ignition timing from factory specs. Factory
ignition timing and curves are never optimized for full performence and EVERY single skoot I have ever dynoed has responded favorably to altering ignition timing.

Investing in an ignition timing capable PCV will ONLY pay dividends in overall performance if ignition timing is altered to achieve the gains available. So the ignition capable PCV is benificial in that regard.

RACNRAY

fammdw · 05-30-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

The first and MOST IMPORTANT aspect of fine tuning is achieving the proper air/fuel ratio. This WILL BE fully accomplished by your fuel only PCV.

The second aspect of fine tuning is to alter ignition timing from factory specs. Factory
ignition timing and curves are never optimized for full performence and EVERY single skoot I have ever dynoed has responded favorably to altering ignition timing.

Investing in an ignition timing capable PCV will ONLY pay dividends in overall performance if ignition timing is altered to achieve the gains available. So the ignition capable PCV is benificial in that regard.

RACNRAY

I guess a better question would be...

Is the performance gain from the ignition model worth the $399 price tag being that I haven't and don't plan to add a BAK. I'm not set-up for maximum performance anyway. The principal purpose of me getting the dyno ran on the bike is to eliminate what little deceleration popping I have.

Your thoughts are appreciated!

RACNRAY · 05-30-2013, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fammdw

I guess a better question would be...

Is the performance gain from the ignition model worth the $399 price tag being that I haven't and don't plan to add a BAK. I'm not set-up for maximum performance anyway. The principal purpose of me getting the dyno ran on the bike is to eliminate what little deceleration popping I have.

Your thoughts are appreciated!

YOU DO NOT NEED DYNO TUNING to eliminate popping on decel, if that is your main or only goal. The old proven method of riding the bike, altering the settings in the 0% column in the PCV map will minimize or eliminate the decel popping.

Overall engine performance, throttle response, gas mileage and engine smoothness will be enhanced with ignition timing changes. The fuel/ignition PCV is only $20.00 more than a fuel only PCV, well worth it.

RACNRAY

denturist1 · 07-07-2013, 07:41 AM

Took the bike to be tuned. The guy spent six hours on it. Said he could not get it perfect. something was overriding some of the inputs? Said I may have a TPS going bad. When I got the bike back idel seemed to stick at times at 1500 rpm have to engage 1st at stop pop clutch a little for it to go back down to 1000 rpm Does it sound like TPS ? Also said that it wanted to go rich 5th and 6th gear no matter what he did ? This guy has a fine rep in the area .... Harley guy Said he did not want to work on this bike again did not know enough about it. Never had this much trouble ever tuning a bike before. Bad TPS or computer or both ? Hesitation at times. almost like a stall but stays running picks up when given throttle.

RACNRAY · 07-08-2013, 12:28 PM

Feel free to call me at my shop 954-455-9665 Fla time, I'll try to help. I am closed today but I'll be here for a bit doing paperwork so if I see a out of area area code I'll pick up.
TUE I have an almost all day appointment so I won't be here after 11am.
Or pm me your # and I'll call you.

RACNRAY

Toga · 08-22-2013, 06:56 PM

The dealership has had my scoot for 4 days now and they still can't tell me if its a Blood or a Crip (it BANGS every time I shift gears.)

I am beginning to wonder if Kawasaki is 'ignoring" this issue, however I do realize that it doesn't make itself a nuisance until somewhere near 15k, which would keep the backlash from their ears. I plan to launch a Twitter campaign soon to bring some attention to the issue (and maybe hasten the return of Papa).
Maybe RACNRAY will be able to take on my bike next week if I have to rescue it from the clutches of the evil SD (service department).
I think I'm venting now. But, I was really looking forward to an awesome ride this weekend - Oh well, a racing I will go.
We have a saying in the Army when we run across things we would normally think as absurd, but exists anyway - "You can't make this S*^# up!"
I think I'm even more upset with the fact that I traded a Fury for this one; the Fury had a PC, BAK, and a full exhaust system - I didn't have any of these issues. And Papa Smurf has slip-ons.

I digress.
RACNRAY - its a 1.4k mile ride and I'be done longer in a day.

Toga · 08-25-2013, 09:53 AM

Ray - what sealant did you use? I’m giving up on Kawi and doing it myself. However, I will need the throttle done and will get it to you ASAP, or rather as soon as I get my scoot back from the dealer. I will need to get your map for the PC though (hope you are willing to share).

RACNRAY · 08-26-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toga

Ray - what sealant did you use? I’m giving up on Kawi and doing it myself. However, I will need the throttle done and will get it to you ASAP, or rather as soon as I get my scoot back from the dealer. I will need to get your map for the PC though (hope you are willing to share).

If you are going to seal the t/b to intake manifold junction use a hi-temp sealant on the Thunder Mfg gasket and also retain the factory o-rings.

RACNRAY

Toga · 08-26-2013, 04:37 PM

Thanks Ray.

Toga · 08-29-2013, 06:49 PM

I bet no one believes this…
Got an email from Motorcycle Factory, Woodbridge, VA today, this is what it said:

"Kawasaki admitted they have a problem and has authorized removing and sealing the intake. I have new o-rings on order, talk to ya soon.”

The key take-away is “Kawasaki admitted they have a problem..”

I am hoping to get a factory fix to this issue. I will press the dealership, at the expense of running my riding season, to make sure the entire issue is addressed, not just the o-rings.

RACNRAY · 08-29-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toga

I bet no one believes this…
Got an email from Motorcycle Factory, Woodbridge, VA today, this is what it said:

"Kawasaki admitted they have a problem and has authorized removing and sealing the intake. I have new o-rings on order, talk to ya soon.”

The key take-away is “Kawasaki admitted they have a problem..”

I am hoping to get a factory fix to this issue. I will press the dealership, at the expense of running my riding season, to make sure the entire issue is addressed, not just the o-rings.

OK....it might be a good idea to get the straight facts from....someone!

New o-rings will be a temporary fix UNLESS they are of a different dimension which would make it hard to fit into the o-ring grooves in the t/b. If they are replacing the o-rings also have them install the Thunder gasket.

There is another source for vacuum leaks, the o-rings between the intake manifold and the heads. The mounting arrangement here is of a "floating design", there is no positive way to seal this area except with new o-rings and lotsa sealant.

GOOD LUCK

RACNRAY

Toga · 08-29-2013, 08:40 PM

Thanks Ray to you and everyone else on the forum, this is what I sent back to the tech”
"Thanks for the update. I wanted to let you know that the o-rings are not going to fix the issue alone. Several dealerships have made the same attempts and the problem reoccurs within 50 miles or less and with a vengeance.
It appears that after the issues begin there is some warping which occurs between the parts creating a larger gap between the o-rings and the parts. I really don’t want to go through this again, and i am sure you don't want to either. There are two solutions:
1. explained in the document of the earlier email - and
2. a gasket made by an outside company found here: http://www.thundermfg.com/store/inde...t_detail&p=472 - at $6.49 this is the most economical and the simplest.”

Ray - the first document was a screen capture of your fix of machining the parts and creating a flat surface to join the parts together properly. I am thinking they will understand and not waste everyone’s time.

Toga · 08-30-2013, 08:55 PM

Okay, this looks familiar. Kawasaki is only willing to change the o-rings - I guess my adventure has just begun. The next step is to return it when it acts up again then…

Toga · 09-10-2013, 02:18 PM

Finally got the Smurf back yesterday.
The backfiring has stopped and about 40% of the decel popping has stopped. The ride into work showed 47mpg on the screen and the fuel gauge didn't have a perceptible movement, which is the icing on the cake.

Now I get to remove the Fi2000R and install the new Powercommander V 17-033. If anyone has a good map for the 1700 with Vance & Hines twin-slash round and a K&N filter let me know how I can get it.

Toga · 09-11-2013, 02:56 PM

Got the PC installed and now I have no decel pop; my MPG is back to 44; there is a deeper throaty sound to the exhaust now and vibration is actually down. Before I took it in my mpg was around 14.
WOW! I am shocked that Kawasaki is not taking "FULL" responsibility for these issues. Especially since a gasket and some re-mapping of the CPU would fix it.
This is my last Kawasaki - I'm going back to Honda.

BTW - anyone want to buy a Cobra fi2000r?

05-30-2013, 02:05 PM	#106
RACNRAY Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: SOUTH FLORIDA Posts: 1,210	The first and MOST IMPORTANT aspect of fine tuning is achieving the proper air/fuel ratio. This WILL BE fully accomplished by your fuel only PCV. The second aspect of fine tuning is to alter ignition timing from factory specs. Factory ignition timing and curves are never optimized for full performence and EVERY single skoot I have ever dynoed has responded favorably to altering ignition timing. Investing in an ignition timing capable PCV will ONLY pay dividends in overall performance if ignition timing is altered to achieve the gains available. So the ignition capable PCV is benificial in that regard. RACNRAY __________________ "TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART, NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES" WITH OVER 46 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION! "WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY" Login or Register to Remove Ads
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07-07-2013, 07:41 AM	#109
denturist1 Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: St. Albans Maine Posts: 14	Took the bike to be tuned. The guy spent six hours on it. Said he could not get it perfect. something was overriding some of the inputs? Said I may have a TPS going bad. When I got the bike back idel seemed to stick at times at 1500 rpm have to engage 1st at stop pop clutch a little for it to go back down to 1000 rpm Does it sound like TPS ? Also said that it wanted to go rich 5th and 6th gear no matter what he did ? This guy has a fine rep in the area .... Harley guy Said he did not want to work on this bike again did not know enough about it. Never had this much trouble ever tuning a bike before. Bad TPS or computer or both ? Hesitation at times. almost like a stall but stays running picks up when given throttle. Last edited by denturist1; 07-07-2013 at 07:46 AM. Reason: more info
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07-08-2013, 12:28 PM	#110
RACNRAY Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: SOUTH FLORIDA Posts: 1,210	Feel free to call me at my shop 954-455-9665 Fla time, I'll try to help. I am closed today but I'll be here for a bit doing paperwork so if I see a out of area area code I'll pick up. TUE I have an almost all day appointment so I won't be here after 11am. Or pm me your # and I'll call you. RACNRAY __________________ "TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART, NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES" WITH OVER 46 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION! "WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY" Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

08-22-2013, 06:56 PM	#111
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Blood or Crip? The dealership has had my scoot for 4 days now and they still can't tell me if its a Blood or a Crip (it BANGS every time I shift gears.) I am beginning to wonder if Kawasaki is 'ignoring" this issue, however I do realize that it doesn't make itself a nuisance until somewhere near 15k, which would keep the backlash from their ears. I plan to launch a Twitter campaign soon to bring some attention to the issue (and maybe hasten the return of Papa). Maybe RACNRAY will be able to take on my bike next week if I have to rescue it from the clutches of the evil SD (service department). I think I'm venting now. But, I was really looking forward to an awesome ride this weekend - Oh well, a racing I will go. We have a saying in the Army when we run across things we would normally think as absurd, but exists anyway - "You can't make this S*^# up!" I think I'm even more upset with the fact that I traded a Fury for this one; the Fury had a PC, BAK, and a full exhaust system - I didn't have any of these issues. And Papa Smurf has slip-ons. I digress. RACNRAY - its a 1.4k mile ride and I'be done longer in a day. __________________
	0

08-25-2013, 09:53 AM	#112
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Ray - what sealant did you use? I’m giving up on Kawi and doing it myself. However, I will need the throttle done and will get it to you ASAP, or rather as soon as I get my scoot back from the dealer. I will need to get your map for the PC though (hope you are willing to share). Last edited by Toga; 08-25-2013 at 10:23 AM.
	0

08-26-2013, 04:37 PM	#114
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Thanks Ray.
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08-29-2013, 06:49 PM	#115
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	I bet no one believes this… Got an email from Motorcycle Factory, Woodbridge, VA today, this is what it said: "Kawasaki admitted they have a problem and has authorized removing and sealing the intake. I have new o-rings on order, talk to ya soon.” The key take-away is “Kawasaki admitted they have a problem..” I am hoping to get a factory fix to this issue. I will press the dealership, at the expense of running my riding season, to make sure the entire issue is addressed, not just the o-rings.
	0

08-29-2013, 08:40 PM	#117
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Thanks Ray to you and everyone else on the forum, this is what I sent back to the tech” "Thanks for the update. I wanted to let you know that the o-rings are not going to fix the issue alone. Several dealerships have made the same attempts and the problem reoccurs within 50 miles or less and with a vengeance. It appears that after the issues begin there is some warping which occurs between the parts creating a larger gap between the o-rings and the parts. I really don’t want to go through this again, and i am sure you don't want to either. There are two solutions: 1. explained in the document of the earlier email - and 2. a gasket made by an outside company found here: http://www.thundermfg.com/store/inde...t_detail&p=472 - at $6.49 this is the most economical and the simplest.” Ray - the first document was a screen capture of your fix of machining the parts and creating a flat surface to join the parts together properly. I am thinking they will understand and not waste everyone’s time. Last edited by Toga; 08-29-2013 at 08:42 PM.
	0

08-30-2013, 08:55 PM	#118
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Okay, this looks familiar. Kawasaki is only willing to change the o-rings - I guess my adventure has just begun. The next step is to return it when it acts up again then…
	0

09-10-2013, 02:18 PM	#119
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Papa is back Finally got the Smurf back yesterday. The backfiring has stopped and about 40% of the decel popping has stopped. The ride into work showed 47mpg on the screen and the fuel gauge didn't have a perceptible movement, which is the icing on the cake. Now I get to remove the Fi2000R and install the new Powercommander V 17-033. If anyone has a good map for the 1700 with Vance & Hines twin-slash round and a K&N filter let me know how I can get it. __________________
	0

09-11-2013, 02:56 PM	#120
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Power Commander Installed Got the PC installed and now I have no decel pop; my MPG is back to 44; there is a deeper throaty sound to the exhaust now and vibration is actually down. Before I took it in my mpg was around 14. WOW! I am shocked that Kawasaki is not taking "FULL" responsibility for these issues. Especially since a gasket and some re-mapping of the CPU would fix it. This is my last Kawasaki - I'm going back to Honda. BTW - anyone want to buy a Cobra fi2000r?
	0