Vaquero intake leaks

[Cajunrider]

James, After installing my TFI, the pinging remained but much less than before. I tried 87octane fuel but had to move back up to 89 in the warm months. Pulling the trailer up hills caused pinging no matter where I set the pots. I then installed the V&H baggers which increased top end power a little but I still had some pinging. I finished off the power mods by installing Chuckster's dual plate intake which eliminated the crossover tube. I can't make it ping now with 87. Taking the crossover out of the mix definitely cools the intake air. My temp sensor is still located on the intake plate but the air passing over it has to be much cooler.

[jandreu]

Originally Posted by Cajunrider

James, After installing my TFI, the pinging remained but much less than before. I tried octane fuel but had to move back up to 89 in the warm months. Pulling the trailer up hills caused pinging no matter where I set the pots. I then installed the V&H baggers which increased top end power a little but I still had some pinging. I finished off the power mods by installing Chuckster's dual plate intake which eliminated the crossover tube. I can't make it ping now with 87. Taking the crossover out of the mix definitely cools the intake air. My temp sensor is still located on the intake plate but the air passing over it has to be much cooler.

Cajunrider, I agree with the stock dog bowl and crossover tube setup the intake air has more time to heat up on the way thru however with an open air intake of any design where the air is not passing from one side to the other thru a tube running between the cylinders I don't think it would have the chance to reach a temp much more than ambient. I have no idea how much our 1600 CC mills gulp each second but it's a lot and the air would have to remain in the elevated temp environment for at least a second to heat up.

So my question is do we feel the air temp sensor relocation is really a benefit with an open intake. I'm not sure it is.

Brad, I'll be looking for your comments after running without the TFI, Of course for it to be a real test you should run one way without the TFI and the relocated air temp sensor and the return trip without the TFI and the air temp sensor back in the stock location. This would be an apples to apples comparison. However IF you are still running with the crossover tube than the air "may" heat up more and cause a lean condition that would not exist with an open air box or the air temp sensor relocated.

Interesting work here guys, RacnRay what are your thoughts about this?


As a side note I guess I'm a lucky one as my Nomad has never pinged under any load even when bone stock as long as I run 89 and up octane. It's always got bad gas millage even when bone stock so I suppect my bike was setup from the factory on the rich side of the spec's.

One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why would the bike be designed to run leaner in warm weather? Leaner makes it run hotter and as Brad said earlier it's a viscous cycle, the hotter the leaner the more it pings.

I'm no expert by any means, is there any way to confirm that increased air temp does cause a lean condition thru the ECU?

[ponch]

Originally Posted by jandreu

Cajunrider, I agree with the stock dog bowl and crossover tube setup the intake air has more time to heat up on the way thru however with an open air intake of any design where the air is not passing from one side to the other thru a tube running between the cylinders I don't think it would have the chance to reach a temp much more than ambient. I have no idea how much our 1600 CC mills gulp each second but it's a lot and the air would have to remain in the elevated temp environment for at least a second to heat up.

So my question is do we feel the air temp sensor relocation is really a benefit with an open intake. I'm not sure it is.

Brad, I'll be looking for your comments after running without the TFI, Of course for it to be a real test you should run one way without the TFI and the relocated air temp sensor and the return trip without the TFI and the air temp sensor back in the stock location. This would be an apples to apples comparison. However IF you are still running with the crossover tube than the air "may" heat up more and cause a lean condition that would not exist with an open air box or the air temp sensor relocated.

Interesting work here guys, RacnRay what are your thoughts about this?


As a side note I guess I'm a lucky one as my Nomad has never pinged under any load even when bone stock as long as I run 89 and up octane. It's always got bad gas millage even when bone stock so I suppect my bike was setup from the factory on the rich side of the spec's.

One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why would the bike be designed to run leaner in warm weather? Leaner makes it run hotter and as Brad said earlier it's a viscous cycle, the hotter the leaner the more it pings.

I'm no expert by any means, is there any way to confirm that increased air temp does cause a lean condition thru the ECU?

Emissions requirements.

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by jandreu

Cajunrider, I agree with the stock dog bowl and crossover tube setup the intake air has more time to heat up on the way thru however with an open air intake of any design where the air is not passing from one side to the other thru a tube running between the cylinders I don't think it would have the chance to reach a temp much more than ambient. I have no idea how much our 1600 CC mills gulp each second but it's a lot and the air would have to remain in the elevated temp environment for at least a second to heat up.

So my question is do we feel the air temp sensor relocation is really a benefit with an open intake. I'm not sure it is.

Brad, I'll be looking for your comments after running without the TFI, Of course for it to be a real test you should run one way without the TFI and the relocated air temp sensor and the return trip without the TFI and the air temp sensor back in the stock location. This would be an apples to apples comparison. However IF you are still running with the crossover tube than the air "may" heat up more and cause a lean condition that would not exist with an open air box or the air temp sensor relocated.

Interesting work here guys, RacnRay what are your thoughts about this?


As a side note I guess I'm a lucky one as my Nomad has never pinged under any load even when bone stock as long as I run 89 and up octane. It's always got bad gas millage even when bone stock so I suppect my bike was setup from the factory on the rich side of the spec's.

One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why would the bike be designed to run leaner in warm weather? Leaner makes it run hotter and as Brad said earlier it's a viscous cycle, the hotter the leaner the more it pings.

I'm no expert by any means, is there any way to confirm that increased air temp does cause a lean condition thru the ECU?

James I've ran my TFI for over 20K miles. I already know what results I gained from it. I've also measured the temp right behind the dog bowl and got the 275 degrees. It's not the crossover tube heating up the air it's the entire right side bowl and backing plate mounted right next to both cylinders that building up the heat.

If you doubt it, idle your bike until the fan kicks in then shut off the bike and just try to take off the bowl!! You'll burn the shit out of your fingers! I can hardly even touch the rubber tubes going to the fast idle solenoids. It's hot and I've measured it and it's not from the crossover tube.

[RACNRAY]

I first moved an a/t sensor on my modified Busa back in 2001, and we perform this on all the skoots with modified engines. On my Busa it evened out the way the engine ran, from start-up to full hot, and the Busa has a ram-air intake, so at a stand still or low speeds it is a VERY fresh air system, and the higher speeds it will start to negate the natural vacuum in the intake, and at very high speeds it will actually provide a small increase in manifold pressure, a "boost" condition.

Every skoot we perform this mod on runs better. I don't know why i didn't do this back when i made my intake system.

FYI...the Busa manual lists 4 temps to check the air temp sensor at, requiring the sensor to be ....HEATED!!

The temps the sensor is to be checked at is, check these out...68 dg...122 dg...176 dg...230 dg!!! Now unless one is riding in an active volcano, i am not aware of ANY spot on earth where anyone rides in above 176 dg temps, much less 230!! This represents the fact that even tho one would believe the constant supply of fresh air into an intake system would keep intake temps close to ambient, heat radiating from the engine does have an affect on the air temp inside the a/b.

RACNRAY