Vaquero intake leaks

[Sin City Stan]

I think we're talking about two kinds of heat. The ambient Temp. in the air box is probably very close to the outdoor air Temp. except when idling. However, if the metal is 250F the Infra-Red heat radiating from the metal could indeed affect the air temp sensor.

Think of a cool Fall day with bright sunshine. You're cool when in the shade and out of the sun's IR short wave radiation heat. Step into the sun and you feel the Sun's IR radiation even though the surrounding air is cool. A campfire is another good example of IR radiation.

Bottom line, get the air temp sensor outta there.

[Monkeyman]

Stupid question time. How can you tell if you need a fuel processor? If I add the FuelPak and move the air temp sensor, how will I know if it's all messed up? Or, if I DON'T add the FuelPak but move the air temp sensor, how will I know? I have the FuelPak already and am about to order one of Chucksters dual plate intakes. No sense in installing something for nothing or trying something just to have an expensive fail.

Would a completely open intake (i.e. Chucksters single plate or dual plate without the dog bowl) make a difference?

[jandreu]

Monkeyman, the fuel processor is used to cure several issues but mostly to help with the lean condition caused by the factory ECU which in turn causes the dreaded and destructive "Ping". By enriching the mix you can run lower grades fuel also if you open up the intake and the exhaust a fuel processor is required to prevent pinging. Other issues with the Nomad [mine at least] that a fuel processor helps with is the low idle stumble. On a lot of bikes when the throttle is dropped quickly and the rpms bounce too low the engine will just die. I had it happen several times until I installed a fuel processor. I have the Cobra unit but from what I've read on the forum I think the Dobeck is the better choice.

I do know that the Fuel Processor gives me better throttle response as it has a pot that acts like an accelerator pump on a carbed bike and by enriching the mix at idle it helps with the low rpm "stumble". If relocating the air temp sensor, without the fuel processor turned on, prevents pinging on mid grade gas I will probaly go that route but will leave the "accelerator pump" pot turned on as it does help with throttle response and turn off the enriching pot.

Someone else may be able to explain this better.

What we are playing with now in relation to this thread is the theory that the air temp sensor "may" be causing part of the lean condition problem due to it is not actually reading ambient temp. Just a bunch of gear heads that can't leave well enough alone!

[blowndodge]

let me pour you another James!

[Monkeyman]

You got me kinda lost but that's ok. The V&H FuelPak doesn't have the same kind of adjustable pots as the Dobreck, etc. It has about 35 different values you have to input to map it. These are given by V&H directly and I wouldn't have any idea which ones to change. Guess I'll leave well enough alone and keep the temp sensor where it's at. Thanks.

[RACNRAY]

I spoke to a forum member yesterday that had seen this thread when I first posted it and had disasembled his Vulcan Classic and found a few interesting things.

First his posts were taller than mine by about .006". The sealing surface on the intake manifold was warped by about .010", and the o-rings that seal the manifold to the intake ports had small tears in them.

He has a friend that owns a machine shop, so he had the throttle body machined flat and block sanded the intake surface flat. He had put it all back together with new o-rings quite some time ago but the weather and road conditions where he lives prevented him from riding his skoot, till yesterday.

His findings were the acceleration was very much improved, the backfire on decel was reduced about 50%, and he had a hesitation since new, even after his ECU was replaced that is now completely gone.

I experienced the same improvements so from what i see here the occurance of some percentage of vacuum leaks may be plaguing Vulcan owners.

I have a customer that just bought a Vaquero, he has some strange things happening with it's low speed running, so after he has the skoot broken in it'll be here for dyno work and to check him for vacuum leaks. He currently has about 600 miles on it so as soon as he gets 1000 miles he'll bring it in. I'll report back then.

RACNRAY

[ponch]

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

I spoke to a forum member yesterday that had seen this thread when I first posted it and had disasembled his Vulcan Classic and found a few interesting things.

First his posts were taller than mine by about .006". The sealing surface on the intake manifold was warped by about .010", and the o-rings that seal the manifold to the intake ports had small tears in them.

He has a friend that owns a machine shop, so he had the throttle body machined flat and block sanded the intake surface flat. He had put it all back together with new o-rings quite some time ago but the weather and road conditions where he lives prevented him from riding his skoot, till yesterday.

His findings were the acceleration was very much improved, the backfire on decel was reduced about 50%, and he had a hesitation since new, even after his ECU was replaced that is now completely gone.

I experienced the same improvements so from what i see here the occurance of some percentage of vacuum leaks may be plaguing Vulcan owners.

I have a customer that just bought a Vaquero, he has some strange things happening with it's low speed running, so after he has the skoot broken in it'll be here for dyno work and to check him for vacuum leaks. He currently has about 600 miles on it so as soon as he gets 1000 miles he'll bring it in. I'll report back then.

RACNRAY

And Mucker had no issues with his throttle body when he disassembled his 1700 engine: http://forums.delphiforums.com/kawvu...msg=105848.143

It's a good thread and shows how well the 1700 engine is engineered. Mucker did this to put the revised gearing and piston rings in his 1700. The Mucker is a motorcycle mechanic by trade.

[RACNRAY]

Originally Posted by ponch

And Mucker had no issues with his throttle body when he disassembled his 1700 engine: http://forums.delphiforums.com/kawvu...msg=105848.143

It's a good thread and shows how well the 1700 engine is engineered. Mucker did this to put the revised gearing and piston rings in his 1700. The Mucker is a motorcycle mechanic by trade.

GOOD FOR HIM!! Thanx for letting us know his is ok.

So far there are 3 of us that found intake leaks, the guy that alerted us to this many months ago, he did his own testing and i am grateful he pursued disassembly of his skoot, mine and Tims. I don't know how many more is out there, but when Chris brings in his V I'll see if his is suffering from this problem.

RACNRAY

[brote]

No doubt in my mind moving the MAT / IAT will fatten up the mixture. Cold air is more dense and can use more gas. If we had a closed loop system, once the system went into closed loop the O2 sensor would handle the mixture trying to keep it at 14.7:1. I also believe that getting your TPS set correctly is very important . Now I wouldn't just run a specific resistor to replace the IAT but moving it works. Just my thinking, which may be faulty.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by brote

No doubt in my mind moving the MAT / IAT will fatten up the mixture. Cold air is more dense and can use more gas. If we had a closed loop system, once the system went into closed loop the O2 sensor would handle the mixture. I also believe that getting your TPS set correctly. Just my thinking, which may be faulty.

There are a lot of benefits to a closed loop system, like running on a lower grade of gas if necessary and better adaptability to changes. Considering Kawasaki has it on other models, they could build a cruiser with one.

[jp58]

Originally Posted by ponch

There are a lot of benefits to a closed loop system, like running on a lower grade of gas if necessary and better adaptability to changes. Considering Kawasaki has it on other models, they could build a cruiser with one.

From what i've read all the 1700's have an 02 sensor (closed loop) that are built for California. I read it in my owners manual somewhere.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by jp58

From what i've read all the 1700's have an 02 sensor (closed loop) that are built for California. I read it in my owners manual somewhere.

Probably so. BMW's are 50 state bikes and they have closed loop. That's a good thing if I wanted to move to CA. I heard if you have a 49 state vehicle, it sucks if you move to CA.

[RACNRAY]

This is the post from the member that tackled diagnosing his intake concerns (posted dec 2011)

QUOTE
"I checked my 1700 classic for intake leaks after seeing what Ray posted about his bike. The way he described how his bike was running sounded like how mine began to run. I found intake leaks between the throttle body and the intake as well as where the intake met the heads. I took it apart to find the same thing as his. The stand-offs on my throttle body were 14 thou tall where his were only 8 thou tall. And as though that wasnt enough, my intake manifold was warped 10 thou on both outside edges of the intake ports and the o-rings where the intake met the heads had small tears and chunks of the outer layer of rubber was missing. My friend has a machine shop so after removing the 14 thou stand-offs off we found the throttle body to still be 4 thou warped in the center. We machined the throttle body surface and trued up the intake by lots of wet sanding on a perfectly flat surface because there isnt a good way to mount it in a mill . I got it back together last night and on initial start up the engine seems much more stable. it comes off of high idle much faster and idles much smoother. The throttle seems much more crisp as well. The real test will be getting it out on the road but i woke up to snow this morning so i guess i will have to wait."
END QUOTE

I just spoke with him and he finally had the first chance the other day to ride his skoot. The results as he reported are a 50% reduction in decel popping, much better throttle response and the complete elimination of a hesitation he has had since new, even after the recall ECU was installed. He sounded very excited, he will post as soon as he can but this is just a brief description.

RACNRAY

[redjay]

What is a FDM ?

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

What is a FDM ?

My guess it is a recall.