Vaquero intake leaks - Page 9

aldridgekennedy · 09-11-2013, 08:08 PM

Has anyone had a chance to closely examine a 2013 vaquero to see if Kawi has taken any steps to address the leaks other than just o rings?

I have a 2011 model and have not had any issues like this.

Toga · 09-12-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldridgekennedy

Has anyone had a chance to closely examine a 2013 vaquero to see if Kawi has taken any steps to address the leaks other than just o rings?

I have a 2011 model and have not had any issues like this.

If its any help, mine is a 2012 and it was leaking. I am in the last stages of the issue.

aldridgekennedy · 09-13-2013, 09:57 AM

Yep.....based on the blue I knew yours to be a 12 model. Curious to see if they did anything to the 13s and 14s to address it.

RACNRAY · 09-13-2013, 10:33 AM

According to the parts diagram for the 2013 there seems to be no difference in the components used in the intake system on the 1700's.

What I have found is that NOT ALL 1700's will have vacuum leaks, but due to the design flaws in how the seal is made between the throttle body and intake manifold, and even just as important between the imtake manifold and cylinder heads, most will develope vacuum leaks of some percentage during there lifetime.

It took about 5 months and 10,000 miles or so for my skoot to start suffering the affects of vacuum leaks. The leaks at the manifold/cylinder heads was worse than between the t/b and manifold.

The height of the posts on the t/b affects the amount of compression on the o-rings, if the posts are too high the o-rings will have insufficient compression. They may have enuff at first but as all o-rings flatten out over time, there will be a lessening of the seal the o-rings are supposed to provide.

Add into this any warpage on the mating surface on the manifold which will not allow proper sealing. The method used to attach and seal the manifold to the heads is what I call a "floating" design and relies on a friction fit of the o-ring to the manifold and again that o-ring is being compressed onto the mating surface of the head.

RACNRAY

Toga · 09-16-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldridgekennedy

Yep.....based on the blue I knew yours to be a 12 model. Curious to see if they did anything to the 13s and 14s to address it.

Good question to ask them.

shortfuse223 · 10-02-2013, 11:26 AM

I have about 1800 miles on my Vaquero now. I broke it in per the manual and have only got on it hard a few times since the break in was completed. I must say that I am underwhelmed by the power. The Suzuki C50 I had before this bike had better acceleration. Don't get me wrong. I love this bike but it definately needs a few things to bring out the potential of this engine. I have not checked but from reading this thread I believe my bike may be a victim of the leaks between the TB and intake and the intake and intake ports. Ordered the Thunder Mfg. gasket yesterday. My plans over the winter are to install the new gasket, put some sealant where the intake mates to the heads, drop in a K&N Filter, install a Cobra Power Pro, and get a set of modded Kury ISO grips from Ray. This season isn't over yet but I am really looking forward to next year when these things are done.

RACNRAY · 10-02-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortfuse223

I have about 1800 miles on my Vaquero now. I broke it in per the manual and have only got on it hard a few times since the break in was completed. I must say that I am underwhelmed by the power. The Suzuki C50 I had before this bike had better acceleration. Don't get me wrong. I love this bike but it definately needs a few things to bring out the potential of this engine. I have not checked but from reading this thread I believe my bike may be a victim of the leaks between the TB and intake and the intake and intake ports. Ordered the Thunder Mfg. gasket yesterday. My plans over the winter are to install the new gasket, put some sealant where the intake mates to the heads, drop in a K&N Filter, install a Cobra Power Pro, and get a set of modded Kury ISO grips from Ray. This season isn't over yet but I am really looking forward to next year when these things are done.

Those mods will certainly help. The Kawi 1700 is a mildly tuned engine. I believe Kawi focused on a smooth runnin engine. For the power the 1700 engine makes the skoot itself is slightly overweight, the HD StreetGlide is about 20 pnds lighter, which may not seem like much but weight does detract from handling and acceleration.

When I installed the V&H 2-1 exhaust on my skoot I could detect better handling, quicker response in turn-in.

In your mods don't forget to at least de-baffle the stock mufflers as that will make further improvements in performance, mpg and helping the engine run a bit cooler. Or as most do install a set of slip-ons.

HAVE FUN with your skoot, I know i have and will continue to do so.

RACNRAY

redjay · 10-02-2013, 05:28 PM

shortfuse223.

You will be underwhelmed with the power of the 1700 until you add a big air kit and the Powerpro. These 2 mods alone will put a smile on your face. If you like a louder exhaust go that route as well. For me the 2009-2010 mufflers are loud enough and don't seem to detract from the performance aspect.

Toga · 10-04-2013, 04:53 PM

Finally got it back. all the leaks are sealed, the PC is in and sent to the dyno. The new HP is 75.71 and the Torque is 101.55 - that is a vast improvement over the 68 and 87 (respectively).

Ray - haven't installed the throttle yet. I will let you know how it runs afterwards.

RACNRAY · 10-04-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toga

Finally got it back. all the leaks are sealed, the PC is in and sent to the dyno. The new HP is 75.71 and the Torque is 101.55 - that is a vast improvement over the 68 and 87 (respectively).

Ray - haven't installed the throttle yet. I will let you know how it runs afterwards.

NICE GAINS...lots more fun to ride now!!

RACNRAY

Toga · 10-04-2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

NICE GAINS...lots more fun to ride now!!

RACNRAY

Now I just got to find time to ride it. LOL
Funky thing the fella who did the dyno says that the ignition system shuts off when the throttle is closed but the fuel injection system keeps pumping. So, when the throttle is opened it pops because of the fuel in the cylinders. What's your take?

Toga · 10-09-2013, 11:40 AM

The throttle mod is the BOMB! Ray, I have to be honest - I did not know there was a lag until after I installed the new throttle. WOW, what a difference. Thanks Ray!

But, I still have popping on the decel and it backfired once or twice. I think I will just bring it to you. I will let you know.

RACNRAY · 10-09-2013, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toga

The throttle mod is the BOMB! Ray, I have to be honest - I did not know there was a lag until after I installed the new throttle. WOW, what a difference. Thanks Ray!

But, I still have popping on the decel and it backfired once or twice. I think I will just bring it to you. I will let you know.

THATS GREAT!! Glad to hear of the improvement, specially as you had not noticed the lag.
Glad you like!!

What type of FI tuner do you have. Your signature lists the Cobra power pro.

RACNRAY

Toga · 10-09-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

THATS GREAT!! Glad to hear of the improvement, specially as you had not noticed the lag.
Glad you like!!

What type of FI tuner do you have. Your signature lists the Cobra power pro.

RACNRAY

Should have changed that.
I have the Powercommander V (Fuel and Ignition)
It was dyno tuned and the fella that did it stated that the ignition shuts off with a closed throttle but the fuel keeps pumping causing the popping. I think that is a crock - what’s your take?

RACNRAY · 10-10-2013, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toga

Should have changed that.
I have the Powercommander V (Fuel and Ignition)
It was dyno tuned and the fella that did it stated that the ignition shuts off with a closed throttle but the fuel keeps pumping causing the popping. I think that is a crock - what’s your take?

NOPE...not true. Think of how much fuel our skoots would be dumping into the atmosphere in that scenario if that statement was true.

Addressing decel popping is not rocket science. If your skoot was dyno tuned then unless something that is wrong with the skoot was NOT rectified b4 the tuning process(intake and exhaust leaks,kleen air system not plugged up, bad plugs, etc.) then most if not all popping on decel can be accomplished during the tuning session.

Some skoots with the added on performance stuff can be a bit, oh shall I say "cantakerous" and require more time in addressing decel popping, but I have found IF the required time is spent going in the RIGHT direction gains in elliminating problems can be achieved.

RACNRAY

09-11-2013, 08:08 PM	#121
aldridgekennedy Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 200	Has anyone had a chance to closely examine a 2013 vaquero to see if Kawi has taken any steps to address the leaks other than just o rings? I have a 2011 model and have not had any issues like this. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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09-13-2013, 10:33 AM	#124
RACNRAY Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: SOUTH FLORIDA Posts: 1,210	According to the parts diagram for the 2013 there seems to be no difference in the components used in the intake system on the 1700's. What I have found is that NOT ALL 1700's will have vacuum leaks, but due to the design flaws in how the seal is made between the throttle body and intake manifold, and even just as important between the imtake manifold and cylinder heads, most will develope vacuum leaks of some percentage during there lifetime. It took about 5 months and 10,000 miles or so for my skoot to start suffering the affects of vacuum leaks. The leaks at the manifold/cylinder heads was worse than between the t/b and manifold. The height of the posts on the t/b affects the amount of compression on the o-rings, if the posts are too high the o-rings will have insufficient compression. They may have enuff at first but as all o-rings flatten out over time, there will be a lessening of the seal the o-rings are supposed to provide. Add into this any warpage on the mating surface on the manifold which will not allow proper sealing. The method used to attach and seal the manifold to the heads is what I call a "floating" design and relies on a friction fit of the o-ring to the manifold and again that o-ring is being compressed onto the mating surface of the head. RACNRAY __________________ "TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART, NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES" WITH OVER 46 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION! "WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY"
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10-02-2013, 11:26 AM	#126
shortfuse223 Jr. Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Western NY Posts: 41	I have about 1800 miles on my Vaquero now. I broke it in per the manual and have only got on it hard a few times since the break in was completed. I must say that I am underwhelmed by the power. The Suzuki C50 I had before this bike had better acceleration. Don't get me wrong. I love this bike but it definately needs a few things to bring out the potential of this engine. I have not checked but from reading this thread I believe my bike may be a victim of the leaks between the TB and intake and the intake and intake ports. Ordered the Thunder Mfg. gasket yesterday. My plans over the winter are to install the new gasket, put some sealant where the intake mates to the heads, drop in a K&N Filter, install a Cobra Power Pro, and get a set of modded Kury ISO grips from Ray. This season isn't over yet but I am really looking forward to next year when these things are done. __________________ 2012 Vaquero Ray's throttle mod K&N filter Thunder gasket Ivan's ECU Mustang seat Vance & Hines Slip Ons VBA#02709
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10-04-2013, 04:53 PM	#129
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	Finally Got It Back Finally got it back. all the leaks are sealed, the PC is in and sent to the dyno. The new HP is 75.71 and the Torque is 101.55 - that is a vast improvement over the 68 and 87 (respectively). Ray - haven't installed the throttle yet. I will let you know how it runs afterwards.
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10-09-2013, 11:40 AM	#132
Toga Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolin Posts: 27	All hail racnray The throttle mod is the BOMB! Ray, I have to be honest - I did not know there was a lag until after I installed the new throttle. WOW, what a difference. Thanks Ray! But, I still have popping on the decel and it backfired once or twice. I think I will just bring it to you. I will let you know. __________________
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09-13-2013, 09:57 AM	#123
aldridgekennedy Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 200	Yep.....based on the blue I knew yours to be a 12 model. Curious to see if they did anything to the 13s and 14s to address it.
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10-02-2013, 05:28 PM	#128
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,927	shortfuse223. You will be underwhelmed with the power of the 1700 until you add a big air kit and the Powerpro. These 2 mods alone will put a smile on your face. If you like a louder exhaust go that route as well. For me the 2009-2010 mufflers are loud enough and don't seem to detract from the performance aspect.
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