Still running bad

[vidornomad]

I posted a thread a little while back called "running bad" and I did most of what ya'll told me to do except for checking the spray pattern on my injectors(don't think I can do this), I replaced plugs, temp sensor, fuel filter, plug ends, cleaned throttle body, ran seafom through it and cleaned K&N air filter. It ran great for a few weeks after that, then a few weeks ago it started to run bad again, it don't want to idle, runs good any other time, it does idle up when cold then when it idles back down after warmed up is when it wants to die, and I'm getting some black smoke out the exhaust when i give it some throttle. I don't have reed valves and it has been plated. I took out any vacuum line not needed and capped at source. I'm at a my ropes end here. This evening I am going to pull tank off again and see if there ain't no loose wiring or something. I am also thinking about changing out the air temp sensor? Any ideas. This is a 2001 FI.

[dogdoc]

Sounds like it might be running to rich Vidor due to the blacksmoke when gunned.Do you have a fuel processor on board? brand? settings? Yopu shouldnt be getting black smoke at any speed if set correctly. You have changed most of all the common little things to check.
Like that color blue bro.
Good Luck

[vidornomad]

Doc,
It is still stock, I have no fuel processor, I did not think I needed one cause it is still mostly stock.

[macmac]

Just missing reed valves? When you pulled the spark plugs what were they like? All sooty black and dry?

How many miles? (wondering if you need cam chain extenders?)

When the bike is all warmed up, what happens if you turn idle up with the black knob under the right side air cleaner dog bowl? ( I know there is no filter in there)

I am meaning to set up idle rpm when the bike is warmed up well.. Like after a 8 mile ride warmed up well.

Is idle the only problem?

[vidornomad]

Mac,
The person before me did away with reed valves, I was going to do it but had already been done. Yes Plugs were sooty black and dry, 41+ miles on bike, when bike is warmed up I did try to turn the idle up and still ran better but I did not like bike idled up that much. Bascilly yes idle is only problem. Like I said it ran fine for a few weeks then started all over again.

[dogdoc]

sounds like the only problem is your idling the bike too low. Should be 900-950 rpm. Still could be rich.

[vidornomad]

But it changes to often, I can set the idle to what it should be, then it goes back down or sometimes up, it is not constist.

[vidornomad]

I think it might need a 12GA adjustment.......

[macmac]

Got a tach on that bike? I hope so.. try a high idle of 950/1000 rpm... apx 500 over what Doc says. This is higher than book spec too.

Run the bike this way for a few days and see if it stalls. Set it up warm, after 8 miles warm...

What ever this is or isn't, isn't a thing to do with reed valves.

No fuel modual and being rich doesn't happen.. I'ld like to say check the vac line at the throttle body that used to run the vac pod, that used to run the reed valve air, but it can't be..

That would just get you leaner if the cap blew off, or leaked..

What in blue blazes makes a stock bike too rich, to run a good idle at 900/950 rpm?

If by chance you are idled down too low, the lifters will fail to pump ip and the valves won't open and close right at the time they should...

Nomads don't do potatoe potate very well. Mess with a higher RPm and lets see what happens..

With a higher idle you will have oil pressure. Speaking of that how old is the oil? Because the oil shares with the tranny it get sheared off at the molecular level, which is harder on oil than in a car engine which doesn't have more than the oil pump shearing the molecules.

If the oil has more than 3,500 change it and the tea bag.

I am workin' heya, tryin ta' think and ain't nuthin' happenin'....

Nice blue too....

[macmac]

For some reason the system didn't load fully.... I didn't get to read this....

"But it changes to often, I can set the idle to what it should be, then it goes back down or sometimes up, it is not constist."

Now we're talkin buisiness.. Tell me all about that!

Would you say it tends to be stable for a while, or does it change no sooner than you are warmed up?

Would you say it "Hunts" going to a higher rev than you like and pretty siin goes back down and stubles down there, only to reurn to a higher RPM with no help from you?

Lets say you were riding along in 3rd at a fair clip and a deer jumps out and you go to stop ASAP which is the way to avoid this deer. Does the engine stall then?

Maybe we are talking a vac leak after all....

Go get a can of WD-40 if you don't have one. If you must buy a new can get one with a wand built in.

I can give you some tests to try.

[vidornomad]

Mac,
No I do not have a tach, but I think I can wing it. I changed oil approx 1500 miles ago. Saturday I idled it up enough to keep running, ran about ten miles (round trip) but everytime I pulled in clutch it revs to high. so after the ten mile round trip I brought the idle back down till it sounded right and then took it for another spin and it keep trying to die on me.

[macmac]

I hate the effect of that when the idle comes up between shifts when you want to slow down... I hear ya.

You did lift the wire harness as it tirns down behind cly #2 right? Pulled it loose and lifted it to see if any chaffing occured there?

Still get the WD-40.

How is it when you twist the throttle up hard to go like a demon?

Any sputtering, or hesitation?

Have you are reason to think the throttle plate was tampered with via set screws?

Do you own a set of feeler gauges? The type typical of adjusting solid lifters?

The 12 gauge fix is not yet in order.

[vidornomad]

Mac,
Basically When I pull in the clutch it wants to die. When going down my driveway which is very long (about 1000') I have to keep clutching it in first gear at about 5 to 10 MPH. it is stable till it warms up and the cold idle shuts off. this evening when I get home if I get home at a decent time I will try spraying WD-40 all around the throttle body.

[vidornomad]

When I throttle hard it runs great, it goes smooth. I can look better at the wiring harness for any rubbing. Yes i do have feeler gauges.

[macmac]

Ok well I don't want a royal mess of WD...

First pull the right side dog bowl off, and then run the engine.

Mist straight into the throttle body a short quick misting, and stop, wait and listen. You are the tach.

If the engine gags it is richer than it should be, or you misted to heavy.

If the engine raises rpm just a bit and then gags you misted too much.

If the rpm goes up and settles the mix is about right at this cold temp.

If the rpm goes thru the roof there is a vac leak.

Always mist, wait and listen.

What you hear now will be what you hunt for later.

Shut the engine down for over night or go take a ride after you put the dog bowl back on..

Next i want the engine at full warm or stone cold again.

You choose, it's your bike and your your life..

If it is a warmed up test repeat the above.

Once the dog bowl is back on avoid aiming at it any more and aim at the throttle body behind it, aim at the assumed capped off brass port where the vac line was mist, wait listen.

Change/ no change...??

Then aim at the throttle plate shaft ends, one and wait, the other and wait.

Change/no change?

Then mist as best you can at the intake manifold joints, one, wait the other wait. Go to the other siode of the bike and repeat this step.

Change/ no change?

Be sure to not hit the injectors unless you know you are hitting them..

These are the next step. Change/ no change.

Any time there is no change it means there is no vac leak there and are good to test the next place.

Any time there is a change like you heard blowing WD into the throttle body directly you will hear what ever that change was, and if you have a change testing you can expect to hear that as you did in the first hearing test to see what you would expect to hear.


If you hear any change cold then test cold. This can be hard to do since the engine is warming.

Sometimes a gasket at the intake a O Ring in this case can leak by air and then seal, these can cause "Hunting" but don't have too.

The injectors are mounted in seal to the intake manifold and these seals can and do leak on injected systems.

WD is a easy on the engine fuel, one of the better testers... Another is propane, which is less messy, but I prefer WD.

Never use ether!

All the above is some testing for air leaks, a misnomer called vacuum leaks. Unmetered air making it to the combustion chambers..

.............................
The wire harness runs up from the pick up coils passing the place I mentioned above, and is a known area for chaffing thru the harness. A mild arcing leak here could cause a weal spark, and sort of dead short, but not quite enough to shut the bike down.
.............................

The feeler gauge: See what blade passes the throttle plate when it is closed. this is at the top and the bottom.

With the T plate wide open see if you can wiggle it up and down. It should not move in, out, up or down one bit. If it does you have no controll of the throttle plate and in turn no controll of its possition, which is critical to the ecu.

Worn bushing and seals here can cause a vac leak and or improper t plate possition.

T plate it short for throttle plate.

This should keep you away from mama for a time