Guys with 1700 heat problems, let me know here.

[IndyRay]

Ok, I've seen enough and received enough emails to know there is a real issue for some of these bikes. These are water cooled bikes and should not go into the red if your in traffic for a bit or working a marathon. That's why most of us went with a water cooled bike instead of other options. I was an MSF instructor and water cooled bikes should be able to work in the course at slow speeds without overheating unless there's a problem. As a former GM of a dealership, I know that we have to provide Kawi with enough input and info to force their hand. What I'm asking is for those of you that have the same problem to reply here and get any others from other sites to consolidate their info here or they can email me directly. I will take the info and put it together then start hammering away at Kawi. Sooner or later Kawi and the rep will have to deal with it or we make it tougher for them to keep selling 1700's without addressing the problem. I don't want another guy shelling out the cash I did or taking a loan out and then being told he just lost 40% of his investment and to top it off you can't enjoy riding it. Pass the info, at some point I will probably need contact info for everyone. for now lets just compile a list to add them up. Thanks and I will keep everyone posted.

[majeff]

Originally Posted by IndyRay

Ok, I've seen enough and received enough emails to know there is a real issue for some of these bikes. These are water cooled bikes and should not go into the red if your in traffic for a bit or working a marathon. That's why most of us went with a water cooled bike instead of other options. I was an MSF instructor and water cooled bikes should be able to work in the course at slow speeds without overheating unless there's a problem. As a former GM of a dealership, I know that we have to provide Kawi with enough input and info to force their hand. What I'm asking is for those of you that have the same problem to reply here and get any others from other sites to consolidate their info here or they can email me directly. I will take the info and put it together then start hammering away at Kawi. Sooner or later Kawi and the rep will have to deal with it or we make it tougher for them to keep selling 1700's without addressing the problem. I don't want another guy shelling out the cash I did or taking a loan out and then being told he just lost 40% of his investment and to top it off you can't enjoy riding it. Pass the info, at some point I will probably need contact info for everyone. for now lets just compile a list to add them up. Thanks and I will keep everyone posted.

You are right the Kawi reps and engineers need to correct the 1700 issues or design a new bike or they will lose customers. I will repeat a previous statement: I bought a new 2010 Voyager back in 2010 and got rid of it after 8 months because of what I call poor design. 1Driver's seating position places you up on the gas tank, 2:transmission shifting banging clunk, first three gears, 3: heat from motor, 4: rake angle only 30° / 7.0 in. makes bike hard to control at slow speed, 5: not speedy take off or passing power, all Torque for trailer and passenger, 6: small fuel tank for big heavy bike. 7: Air flow "buffeting". The bike is a good looking bike but looks don't make it a good bike. Just my opinion!.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by majeff

1Driver's seating position places you up on the gas tank, 2:transmission shifting banging clunk, first three gears, 3: heat from motor, 4: rake angle only 30° / 7.0 in. makes bike hard to control at slow speed, 5: not speedy take off or passing power, all Torque for trailer and passenger, 6: small fuel tank for big heavy bike. 7: Air flow "buffeting". The bike is a good looking bike but looks don't make it a good bike. Just my opinion!.

Dozens of magazines and websites and thoroughly tested the 1700 bikes, along with other bikes and seem to not write about any major issues. Most give the Vaquero good reviews. Remember there is no perfect bike. All bikes have their pros and cons.

1. Perhaps it's impossible to make a seat that fits every size/weight rider perfectly. I'm 5'8" 155 lbs and I was definitely not sitting on the tank. Perhaps you need to have the seat adjust to fit you better?
2. And? Does this harm anything?
3. Perhaps this is a real problem (this is still to be decided), but from your other complaints I'm guessing you're expecting too much.
4. I thought the lesser the fork angle the better handling? Don't most sport bikes have around a 23 degree angle?
5. Stock numbers were 64.97HP and 79.39 torque, which seems about normal. Racnray was able to get 87.67HP and 106.03 torque out of his modified 1700, which are very impressive numbers.
6. The bike has a 200+ mile range. Perhaps it could be bigger, but I wouldn't consider it an issue, just preference. Larger fuel capacity means bigger, heavier tank. Some would probably complain about how big the tank was if they tried to fit another gallon.
7. Perhaps you should be shorter? Really...?

[landman]

Originally Posted by Utah Motorcyclist

Dozens of magazines and websites and thoroughly tested the 1700 bikes, along with other bikes and seem to not write about any major issues. Most give the Vaquero good reviews. Remember there is no perfect bike. All bikes have their pros and cons.

1. Perhaps it's impossible to make a seat that fits every size/weight rider perfectly. I'm 5'8" 155 lbs and I was definitely not sitting on the tank. Perhaps you need to have the seat adjust to fit you better?
2. And? Does this harm anything?
3. Perhaps this is a real problem (this is still to be decided), but from your other complaints I'm guessing you're expecting too much.
4. I thought the lesser the fork angle the better handling? Don't most sport bikes have around a 23 degree angle?
5. Stock numbers were 64.97HP and 79.39 torque, which seems about normal. Racnray was able to get 87.67HP and 106.03 torque out of his modified 1700, which are very impressive numbers.
6. The bike has a 200+ mile range. Perhaps it could be bigger, but I wouldn't consider it an issue, just preference. Larger fuel capacity means bigger, heavier tank. Some would probably complain about how big the tank was if they tried to fit another gallon.
7. Perhaps you should be shorter? Really...?

what jared said !

[jestephens]

I have '11 Vaquero. - I would agree they are hotter than they need to be.

I've gotten mine tolerable with new exhaust. My opinion is the super-restrictive exhaust added to the heat. The large catalytic converters in each muffler held a lot of heat too.

[DarkStar]

I've read your posts and have not responding until this point, in my opinion you've not done your homework before purchase, a bit of research would have told you this bike isn't what I'd actually call water-cooled, I'd call it water assisted... the heads are water-cooled, the jugs are air cooled which makes the water cooling marginal at best thus by its very nature, displacement and design she's going to feel and be hotter at slow speeds.

As I recall Harley had to contend with a class action suit regarding engine heat, that made me laugh too, people buying things and having no idea how they actually work. If you're looking to complain why not start with the EPA and the lean air and fuel mixtures manufacturers are forced to contend with.

My Vaquero runs at the 1/4 line on the temp gauge since I took matters in my own hands and corrected the lean condition forced on this bike. So, to answer your post, did I have heat? Yes, it's the very nature of the beast. Did I correct it? Yes. Did I blame MaKawi for design flaws? Hell no, I blame the nanny-state...

[ponch]

Rake angle is too small? The HD touring bikes have smaller rake angles and handle even better at low speeds. The Voyager has a smaller angle than the 1600 and handles way better at low speeds than the 1600.

IMO, Kawasaki design the Voyager to be more like HD in many ways instead of being unique. What they may have gotten is neither a logical path from existing kawasaki DNA and it's not a HD. John Hoover was the man behind the Vulcan Classic line. I have to wonder what he thinks now that he is retired and out of the game. He left Kawasaki when they changed directions in design of the Vulcans. Originally, his vision was to make a cruiser that might be what a modern Indian would be today. This isn't it.

That said, the heat issue should be easy to fix compared to the other issues. If Kawasaki can make a ZX10R with all that technology in it, they should be able to make this better.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

I've read your posts and have not responding until this point, in my opinion you've not done your homework before purchase, a bit of research would have told you this bike isn't what I'd actually call water-cooled, I'd call it water assisted... the heads are water-cooled, the jugs are air cooled which makes the water cooling marginal at best thus by its very nature, displacement and design she's going to feel and be hotter at slow speeds.

As I recall Harley had to contend with a class action suit regarding engine heat, that made me laugh too, people buying things and having no idea how they actually work. If you're looking to complain why not start with the EPA and the lean air and fuel mixtures manufacturers are forced to contend with.

My Vaquero runs at the 1/4 line on the temp gauge since I took matters in my own hands and corrected the lean condition forced on this bike. So, to answer your post, did I have heat? Yes, it's the very nature of the beast. Did I correct it? Yes. Did I blame MaKawi for design flaws? Hell no, I blame the nanny-state...

I have to wonder why they didn't water cool the cylinders as well.

[ringadingh]

Originally Posted by ponch

I have to wonder why they didn't water cool the cylinders as well.

I figure cost is the main reason, water cooled cylinders are more expensive to make in production, and probably styling as well.

[usranger74]

So, are the 1600 CC Nomads in the same boat as far as cooling goes?

[puckoach]

Originally Posted by usranger74

So, are the 1600 CC Nomads in the same boat as far as cooling goes?

Looking at the 1600 manual, it appears the jugs have water jackets.


Good to see that a few members have posted some solutions !

[ponch]

Originally Posted by ringadingh

I figure cost is the main reason, water cooled cylinders are more expensive to make in production, and probably styling as well.

I looked at the schematic and the very top of the 1700's cylinders get water, basically where the rings are at TDC. The fan is supposed to go on at 203˚F and go off when it drops down to 194˚F. If the fan isn't turning on, the water temps aren't high enough.

[tazfl]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

My Vaquero runs at the 1/4 line on the temp gauge since I took matters in my own hands and corrected the lean condition forced on this bike. So, to answer your post, did I have heat? Yes, it's the very nature of the beast. Did I correct it? Yes. Did I blame MaKawi for design flaws? Hell no, I blame the nanny-state...

Darkstar, what did you do to correct the lean condition, add a fuel management device? Is that the only thing you did to deal with the heat?

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by tazfl

Darkstar, what did you do to correct the lean condition, add a fuel management device? Is that the only thing you did to deal with the heat?

I replaced the stock exhaust with V&H slash cuts, while I had the exhaust system apart I wrapped the header to prevent heat from radiating around the engine, intake, and my right leg... That alone made a large difference in comfort. I installed a PCV and have worked up a map that's giving great performance and mileage. As I made each change there was a difference with heat, but the biggest aid to cooler running was removing the stock left and right dog bowls and adding a Thunder round intake. Air flow over the cooling fins has increased and the area between the jugs in now open... now the air can actually get to the engine...

I will be flushing the cooling system and refilling with Engine Ice later this month to give the cooling system every chance to be as efficient as possible, if you look at page 4-4 of the Vaquero service manual you can see a diagram of the limited cooling flow, but the changes made so far have vastly improved how 'hot' this machine operates...

The Vaquero reminds me of my old HD's... it needs some lovin' here and there to bring out the potential and the effort is well worth it in the end...

[ponch]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

I replaced the stock exhaust with V&H slash cuts, while I had the exhaust system apart I wrapped the header to prevent heat from radiating around the engine, intake, and my right leg... That alone made a large difference in comfort. I installed a PCV and have worked up a map that's giving great performance and mileage. As I made each change there was a difference with heat, but the biggest aid to cooler running was removing the stock left and right dog bowls and adding a Thunder round intake. Air flow over the cooling fins has increased and the area between the jugs in now open... now the air can actually get to the engine...

I will be flushing the cooling system and refilling with Engine Ice later this month to give the cooling system every chance to be as efficient as possible, if you look at page 4-4 of the Vaquero service manual you can see a diagram of the limited cooling flow, but the changes made so far have vastly improved how 'hot' this machine operates...

The Vaquero reminds me of my old HD's... it needs some lovin' here and there to bring out the potential and the effort is well worth it in the end...

Did you remove the air injection and did you use the autotune?