Noise In Motor

Regin · 11-04-2015, 09:33 PM

Back again, still have not been able to fix the problem. Hoping their is someone out there who can help me.
It started about 8 weeks ago a rattling noise in the top of the front cylinder, when they pulled the motor down they found 2 hydraulic lifter had bled down so they replaced them and put it back together but after taking it for a run the noise came back. Again they pulled the motor down and the other 2 lifter had bled down so they replaced them and put the motor back together after a run of about 20 km the same thing happened. They again pulled the motor down pumped up the lifters and checked all the oil channels, find one partially blocked they thought they had solved the problem but the same thing happened again.
They assure me that all the oil channels are clear and the oil pump is ok but they don't know what to do next. Any idea's out there???

redjay · 11-04-2015, 09:47 PM

Do you believe that the mechanics are trustworthy and are doing what they say they are doing ?

Lumberjack · 11-04-2015, 10:14 PM

Start looking for another bike (or shop)...

Snake Ranch · 11-04-2015, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regin

Back again, still have not been able to fix the problem. Hoping their is someone out there who can help me.
It started about 8 weeks ago a rattling noise in the top of the front cylinder, when they pulled the motor down they found 2 hydraulic lifter had bled down so they replaced them and put it back together but after taking it for a run the noise came back. Again they pulled the motor down and the other 2 lifter had bled down so they replaced them and put the motor back together after a run of about 20 km the same thing happened. They again pulled the motor down pumped up the lifters and checked all the oil channels, find one partially blocked they thought they had solved the problem but the same thing happened again.
They assure me that all the oil channels are clear and the oil pump is ok but they don't know what to do next. Any idea's out there???

The oil pump only moves oil. The amount of clearance that is in the engine is what determines how much oil pressure you will see. The pressure bypass valve in the pump will determine the maximum oil pressure.

If the gears in the oil pump are worn, the oil pump will not be able to move enough oil to overcome the leakage in the engine and make pressure. And the oil pressure will drop significantly when the oil gets hot.

If the pressure relief valve is stuck open there will be a loss of oil flow to the engine and oil pressure.

If the oil filter is plugged there could be a restriction dropping the pressure.

PM me if you have any specific questions. This is going to a process of elimination.

**smokier** · 11-05-2015, 08:26 AM

What weight and type of oil are you running? (Not asking you to respond to this, asking you to consider this)
My thinking is, if it is a thinner (Say 10w30) dino oil and it has a few miles on it, the oil might be "worn out"? (<- bad phrase, you get the idea.)
A thicker 10w40 or 15w40 syn should resist viscosity break down due to heat?
Next suspect would be the oil filter. Is it the bottleneck in the flow of oil?
I.E. Is it time for an oil and filter change?
Finally, in my thinking, the oil pump...
These are just thoughts, not saying they are good ones...

Just thoughts...

Hope you get it figured out soon.
Smokier

UNCLE WILLIE · 11-05-2015, 11:31 AM

REGIN
I just sent a message to u .. hope it went through and helps

duffy · 11-05-2015, 12:54 PM

Have they told you what oil pressure the engine is making? Sure sounds like a weak oil pump to me or at least weak oil pressure.

Regin · 11-05-2015, 03:13 PM

No they didn't tell me the oil pressure only that it was Ok. It seems to be only the front cylinder that is having the problem.

UNCLE WILLIE · 11-05-2015, 04:18 PM

sounds like a real brain teaser .. it may be possible to put the rocker shafts in wrong where the oil passage is partly blocked to the lifters but that would not account for the noise before it was worked on .. oil pump problems unlikely on a new engine .. unless was a defect from factory and that's why the first owner sold it .. still a remote chance the compression release assembly could make noise if it had a malfunction and that is on the camshaft end and has several moving parts close to the hla's .. hope it turns out to be simple thing .. the oil pressure is checked close to the filter outlet not up top where ur noise is so volume there would be a guess if u look at it while spinning the engine [with the plugs out] but should be a steady flow around cams and rockers ..if it comes in spurts u got a problem provided the engine will spin steady with a charger on the battery .. to many possibilities and if u cant do it ur self ur at the mercy of whoever .. no doubt someone will stumble on the answer or a piece of carbon will blow out when u give it the interstate tune up that has fixed numerous top end noises

Regin · 11-05-2015, 10:14 PM

I am sending it to another mechanic who is going to check the oil pressure relieve valve as that's about the only thing that hasn't been checked, though this is going to be a big job and espensive.

UNCLE WILLIE · 11-06-2015, 01:31 PM

I hesitate to say to much sense its none of my business but: it would be good to but a gauge with a long hose on it and go ride until the problem shows up then watch the pressure for a while to see if it drops or is erratic .. if it stays steady/normal then the valve isn't the problem .. hope they actually checked the feed holes to the hla's involved . one time I saw a drill bit broke off in a feed hole to the crank main brg. that fed just enough oil to keep it going a while but the guy making the repair did not see it and almost had a disaster .. but that was on an Oldsmobile .. things happen with robots that get overlooked .. anyway if the pressure dropped it seems like it would affect more than just 2 hla's on one head and a proper pressure test on a ghost hunt will take more than 5 min. in the shop .. hope things go well for u

CBO Vaquero · 11-06-2015, 04:15 PM

Since the dealer has had the top end apart 3 times have they ever checked the compression release system in the cams? I had a Mean Streak that made a horrible rattling noise in the top end and that was the problem. The metal rivets holding that thing together were just about to come apart and that would have killed the engine. You don't say what year or model but they still use this type of system with lots of little rattily parts, they should check!

UNCLE WILLIE · 11-06-2015, 09:58 PM

sense CBO has had the problem with comp. release and I have mentioned it twice by all means look at it close .. common sense says the press. relief valve is a remote chance and its a complete disassembly to get to it which aint cheap .. leave no stones unturned .. could be a bad o ring on the oil feed tube to that head ... several could be's .. just tryin to help u save wasting money and time sense good riding weather is coming ur way

Regin · 05-04-2016, 11:23 PM

Finally got my Nomad back from the workshop, 7 months and lots of dollars later.
Turned out being a blockage in an oil gallery near the crank shaft, not sure why it took so long to find, but at least I'm back on the road and smiling again.
Thanks for all the advice.

Lumberjack · 05-05-2016, 12:05 PM

Don't the older Vulcan's have the plastic gear for the oil?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regin

Finally got my Nomad back from the workshop, 7 months and lots of dollars later.
Turned out being a blockage in an oil gallery near the crank shaft, not sure why it took so long to find, but at least I'm back on the road and smiling again.
Thanks for all the advice.

11-04-2015, 09:33 PM	#1
Regin Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 14	Noise In Motor Back again, still have not been able to fix the problem. Hoping their is someone out there who can help me. It started about 8 weeks ago a rattling noise in the top of the front cylinder, when they pulled the motor down they found 2 hydraulic lifter had bled down so they replaced them and put it back together but after taking it for a run the noise came back. Again they pulled the motor down and the other 2 lifter had bled down so they replaced them and put the motor back together after a run of about 20 km the same thing happened. They again pulled the motor down pumped up the lifters and checked all the oil channels, find one partially blocked they thought they had solved the problem but the same thing happened again. They assure me that all the oil channels are clear and the oil pump is ok but they don't know what to do next. Any idea's out there??? Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

11-05-2015, 08:26 AM	#5
smokier Join Date: May 2015 Location: DBQ Iowa Posts: 1,807	What weight and type of oil are you running? (Not asking you to respond to this, asking you to consider this) My thinking is, if it is a thinner (Say 10w30) dino oil and it has a few miles on it, the oil might be "worn out"? (<- bad phrase, you get the idea.) A thicker 10w40 or 15w40 syn should resist viscosity break down due to heat? Next suspect would be the oil filter. Is it the bottleneck in the flow of oil? I.E. Is it time for an oil and filter change? Finally, in my thinking, the oil pump... These are just thoughts, not saying they are good ones... Just thoughts... Hope you get it figured out soon. Smokier Login or Register to Remove Ads Last edited by smokier; 11-05-2015 at 08:30 AM.
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11-06-2015, 04:15 PM	#12
CBO Vaquero Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Preble county Ohio Posts: 259	Since the dealer has had the top end apart 3 times have they ever checked the compression release system in the cams? I had a Mean Streak that made a horrible rattling noise in the top end and that was the problem. The metal rivets holding that thing together were just about to come apart and that would have killed the engine. You don't say what year or model but they still use this type of system with lots of little rattily parts, they should check! __________________ My new ride.... 2015 Honda F6B Deluxe
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11-04-2015, 09:47 PM	#2
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,954	Do you believe that the mechanics are trustworthy and are doing what they say they are doing ?
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11-04-2015, 10:14 PM	#3
Lumberjack Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 542	Start looking for another bike (or shop)...
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11-05-2015, 11:31 AM	#6
UNCLE WILLIE Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: knoxville tn Posts: 227	REGIN I just sent a message to u .. hope it went through and helps
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11-05-2015, 12:54 PM	#7
duffy Sr. Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hot Springs, SD and other warm and dry places Posts: 1,043	Have they told you what oil pressure the engine is making? Sure sounds like a weak oil pump to me or at least weak oil pressure.
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11-05-2015, 03:13 PM	#8
Regin Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 14	No they didn't tell me the oil pressure only that it was Ok. It seems to be only the front cylinder that is having the problem.
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11-05-2015, 04:18 PM	#9
UNCLE WILLIE Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: knoxville tn Posts: 227	sounds like a real brain teaser .. it may be possible to put the rocker shafts in wrong where the oil passage is partly blocked to the lifters but that would not account for the noise before it was worked on .. oil pump problems unlikely on a new engine .. unless was a defect from factory and that's why the first owner sold it .. still a remote chance the compression release assembly could make noise if it had a malfunction and that is on the camshaft end and has several moving parts close to the hla's .. hope it turns out to be simple thing .. the oil pressure is checked close to the filter outlet not up top where ur noise is so volume there would be a guess if u look at it while spinning the engine [with the plugs out] but should be a steady flow around cams and rockers ..if it comes in spurts u got a problem provided the engine will spin steady with a charger on the battery .. to many possibilities and if u cant do it ur self ur at the mercy of whoever .. no doubt someone will stumble on the answer or a piece of carbon will blow out when u give it the interstate tune up that has fixed numerous top end noises
	0

11-05-2015, 10:14 PM	#10
Regin Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 14	I am sending it to another mechanic who is going to check the oil pressure relieve valve as that's about the only thing that hasn't been checked, though this is going to be a big job and espensive.
	0

11-06-2015, 01:31 PM	#11
UNCLE WILLIE Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: knoxville tn Posts: 227	I hesitate to say to much sense its none of my business but: it would be good to but a gauge with a long hose on it and go ride until the problem shows up then watch the pressure for a while to see if it drops or is erratic .. if it stays steady/normal then the valve isn't the problem .. hope they actually checked the feed holes to the hla's involved . one time I saw a drill bit broke off in a feed hole to the crank main brg. that fed just enough oil to keep it going a while but the guy making the repair did not see it and almost had a disaster .. but that was on an Oldsmobile .. things happen with robots that get overlooked .. anyway if the pressure dropped it seems like it would affect more than just 2 hla's on one head and a proper pressure test on a ghost hunt will take more than 5 min. in the shop .. hope things go well for u
	0

11-06-2015, 09:58 PM	#13
UNCLE WILLIE Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: knoxville tn Posts: 227	sense CBO has had the problem with comp. release and I have mentioned it twice by all means look at it close .. common sense says the press. relief valve is a remote chance and its a complete disassembly to get to it which aint cheap .. leave no stones unturned .. could be a bad o ring on the oil feed tube to that head ... several could be's .. just tryin to help u save wasting money and time sense good riding weather is coming ur way
	0

05-04-2016, 11:23 PM	#14
Regin Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 14	Finally got my Nomad back from the workshop, 7 months and lots of dollars later. Turned out being a blockage in an oil gallery near the crank shaft, not sure why it took so long to find, but at least I'm back on the road and smiling again. Thanks for all the advice.
	0