Timing Nightmare

[vvbluerider]

Has anyone messed up the timing on a 1700 Voyager ABS engine, 2011? I missed the very subtle statement in the service manual which requires the crankshaft to be turned 412 degrees after getting the front cylinder set. The manual really gives no obvious WARNING about only turning the crank 412 degrees to then adjust the rear cylinder timing marks. A bold warning in the manual is desperately required!

I screwed up because of this and missed the 'phase' part of the timing procedure. Sounds like a pretty common error due to very vague instructions in the service manual.

Trying to verify if this problem can be fixed without having to completely remove the engine. If the rear cylinder is aligned correctly. Can the engine be turned clockwise 308 degrees to then reset the front cylinder timing while keeping the engine in the bike?

Manual is very specific about turning the engine clockwise only. Is that because of tensioner issues? If you can turn the crankshaft counter clockwise then starting from the rear timing marks and going back 412 degrees should allow the front cylinder to be readjusted and prevent an entire engine removal procedure. Very confused on all this.

Dealer said they won't touch the bike as it is over 10 years old. Sounds like Kawi is following Harley's footsteps, leave everybody out in the cold or buy a new bike? Sad story.

[redjay]

My suggestion would be to contact RACNRAY on the forum.

https://www.vulcanbagger.com/forums/member.php?u=2874

[gv550]

I think yes, if you are confident the rear cam is properly timed to the R mark on the crankshaft you should be able to drop the front of the engine enough to re-time the front cam. Rotate the crank backward 308 degrees and set the front cam.
You will need to remove a lot of parts to see the timing marks and to remove the front tensioner in order to rotate the cam.

[vvbluerider]

I am a bit concerned about turning the engine backwards or counterclockwise at the crank as the service manual states you should only rotate it clockwise. Any ideas on why you are only suppose to go in one direction?

Thanks redjay for the link to RACNRAY

[gv550]

Originally Posted by vvbluerider

I am a bit concerned about turning the engine backwards or counterclockwise at the crank.....

Re-reading your post from yesterday, there does appear to be confusion about engine rotation. Turning the engine backwards (opposite wheel rotation) is clockwise (viewed from the left side of the bike).
If you already set the rear cam by rotating the crankshaft forward... then the timing is wrong. You will need to remove the engine, both valve covers and side covers to see all the marks and time both cams while rotating the engine backwards (clockwise).
Also note this is an interference engine, if the cams are not properly timed the piston can hit the valves and likely bend them.

[gv550]

Engine must be rotated in the same direction it turns when running, which is backwards (engine rotates opposite direction to the wheels). Rotate the engine clockwise when looking at the output shaft.
Rotating the crankshaft in the wrong direction (forward) will loosen the rear strand of the cam chains and the timing marks will not align.

[vvbluerider]

Thanks for the clarification on forward VS backwards. The service manual does not give any explanation. I only turned the crank clockwise as instructed in the service manual. Since I missed the correct rotation 360

[vvbluerider]

Looks like this website 'edited' my last message by cutting out my comments on having to split the entire engine to fix a sizzled transmission output shaft. A total engineering failure on behalf of Kawasaki Corporation. Of course that is something they would love to sweep under the carpet, along with their inadequate warnings about rotating the engine 360 degrees plus 52 degrees to set the rear timing correctly. The manual gives three bold faced notices about keeping the chain tight while rotating the crank. No bold face notice about rotating the engine beyond 412 degrees to set the rear timing!

I will submit a reply to gv550 on my concerns to rotating the engine an additional 308 degrees to adjust the front cylinder off a incorrectly phased rear cyclinder. No dealer tech will approach the subject.

[vvbluerider]

Do you have to become a member to send a receive a personal message?

[redjay]

If you are posting messages I presume you are a forum member and can also receive personal messages ?

[vvbluerider]

Thanks for your input redjay.

I was told a lie by a certified Kawasaki dealer that the timing could be adjusted with the bike in the frame. They have no clue what they are talking about. The rear cylinder cover can not even be removed with the engine in the frame.

You made it sound like the front cylinder timing could be changed while the engine is in the bike? Have you ever done this yourself or are you speculating? I think you said you could 'lower' the front end of the motor to do this.

Please don't take this in the wrong way but I'm curious where you acquired your technical knowledge regarding engine work on these bikes?

I'm hesitant to trust anybody right now after the run around I've gotten from Kawi Corp and their dealer network. It is an utter disgrace.

[vvbluerider]

PS, I have no mailbox on my access page so all communications need to go via posts. Maybe I am missing something?

[redjay]

Click on the persons forum name you want to send a private message to.

Their forum name will be on the left hand side of the forum page in the corner of the message you want to respond to.

A drop down with options appears.

Click on send a private message to ---------

When you are done writing your message click "submit message".

[gv550]

I have never tried to change the timing on this engine while in the frame, because I've never had to. You asked if it could be done I said "I think yes". The rear valve cover would not need to be removed provided you already timed the rear cylinder to the R mark and the cam sprocket has the triangle up and the timing lines aligned with the surface of the head while turning the crankshaft backwards. All you need to do is align the R while on compression stroke and that would be your start point.
I've also never tried lowering the engine to remove the front valve cover, just thinking it should be possible. Maybe not, I don't have a bike in front of me to look at. But you will need all the motor mounts removed anyway, and the alternator cover and rotor,.... just pull the engine out and do the job properly. Time the front cam, rotate the crank backwards 360+52 degrees and check the timing on the rear cam.

[gv550]

This morning I found a 1700 Nomad for sale, bought it and have it in my garage.
I removed the fuel tank, the top rad hose, unbolted the coils and laid them over the bracket, pulled the spark plug, moved the air switch valve back, removed the plastichrome covers...... and lifted the front valve cover off. I did not loosen or remove any motor mounts. 50 minutes of easy work and I can see the timing marks on the front cam.... piece of cake.
I have pictures but too big to load here, give me your email and I'll send them to you.