Dan Lund.... Turned humorous

[trip]

Just a quick note to let you know that I've banned Dan Lundquist from KawaNOW.

I had originally given him until Thursday to make an apology in the NMR-ONT board, but he decided to log in today and slander me again, instead of making an apology or even discussing the situation with me.

It was evident that he had no respect for me, KawaNOW or any of you, the members of KawaNOW by the way he acted.

Whether you agree with me or disagree is your right and I have no intention of changing how you feel about Dan Lund or the situation.

I can't just sit around and allow a person to do what he did and say what he's said on the forum about me and others. His actions are unprofessional and immature.

For those that have been emailing Dan personally, let him know that he has been banned and is no longer welcome on KawaNOW.

For those that are new to KawaNOW, I'm sorry you had to see this. But, sometimes members have to be delt with to ensure a safe place to learn more and develop friendships around the Nomad.

I purposely left Dan's last 2 posts in the NMR board. I locked the threads so this issue can die eventually go away. If you read it, please bare in mind that I am not a racist that Dan makes me out to be, nor is anyone else he mentions in his sympathy post. Never have I been a racist, nor will I ever be. I judge a man by his character, not the color of his skin.

Thanks,
Trip

[Bdog]

I'm pissed off to see that this has come down to Dans departure. Like the majority of the members on this site..I didn't see the slander on his original posts although I didn't care to read the sticks and stones in his defence posts. Hopefully a few other members on this site take notice to their slanderous ways and back off because it is really a turn-off on this site when it happens. I'm a proud Canadian old fart who served his country. Bdog

O.k. I read the posts and I cannot believe you're kicking him off this site for what he sorta kinda said. I guess if the comments were at the least hardcore I might agree with you Trip. This is B.S. O.k. now you can kick me off too.

[trip]

I respect your opinion Madno, just like I respect everyone's opinion. Just remember what I've said all along....it's not what you say, but how you say it.

If you think it's B.S. and you want to leave, nothing's stopping you.

[waterman]

Mando and Bdog,

We don't know the full story. I am sure that there have been plenty of P.M.'s sent and emails on this. We don't know the full extent of these. I will trust those in charge to make the right decision. I may or may not agree with them with the information I know of but I trust those in charge.

[jandreu]

It would be very easy to just not say anything about this, heck it really has nothing to do with me personally other than I feel an injustice has been done. I know this post will not change anything either way but I feel I need to voice my feelings;

Quote from the Ticket thread...
All you old-timers who were protesting "the man" having too much power in the 60's, what happened? You all became such softies who roll over and let the government take so much more power than they ever had in the 60's and use it subversively. Was all that protesting just a cool way to get chicks who didn't wash their hair and smoked pot, but were easy?

The generation that wanted social change in the 60's are complacent boring old farts who just don't give a damn about what the government does now. The people who got their heads cracked open during the 68 Democratic National Convention are probably all submissive old farts who are watching TV saying, "I don't care if the government spies on us" "I don't care if they make you show papers, just because of how you look". What happened to you all?
End quote....

If the following sentence had been worded differently;
"All you old-timers who were protesting "the man" having too much power in the 60's, what happened?"
to read;
"All of the old-timers who were protesting "the man" having too much power in the 60's, what happened?"
The personal reference would not have been given a second thought. IMHO.
Funny what a difference a couple words can make and I don't think Dan was directing the comment to anyone person or a generation.

Quote from Trips first reply;
"While I'm not a Vietnam vet, I did grow up in that era. I was in the draft, just didn't have my number come up until after Nixon killed the draft. Many of my friends were killed in Vietnam. I hold that time near and dear to my heart.
So Dan, I think an apology to all of the Vietnam Vets and Vietnam era gentlemen of this forum is in order."
end quote.

Dan made no reference to Vietnam Vets, in fact he was referring to protesters of the Vietnam era.

I'm sorry Trip but I think you got your back up against the wall on this one as did Dan when he was asked to apologize for something he did not do. We all have bad days.

Trip in IMHO you screwed the pooch on this one.

I appreciate how much work this forum is to keep going and none of us are perfect. I enjoy the debates here and really appreciate the help everyone so freely offers. I try my best to help folks when I can and accept help when I need it but I think I'll take some time away from the forum for awhile. I'll be back, if I'm still welcome, but I expect more from people in responsible positions than the way this turned out.

Thanks for the soap box..... ???

[thedude]

Wow, I am a new member here, but a long time member of many, many, many fourums. I've seen lot's of people banned, and without exception agreed with the ban. Now comes this time and all I can say is I feel like I'm in a cult or something. Dan did NOTHING wrong, and certainly shouldn't have been told apologize or else... This has left a very bad taste in my mouth for this site. 'nuff said.

Just seems like freedom of speech and Democracy are leaving too.

[trip]

Madno and others..... (I may be blunt in some areas, so bare with me)...

I started this forum over three years ago not to give people freedom of speech or give them democracy, but to give them a place to learn more about their Nomads and to point them to others that own and operate Nomads.

What I put in place three years ago is still in place today....to protect everyone on the forum and give them a safe place to talk about their Nomads. There must be certain expectations in place and when a select few violate those expectations, something has got to be done.

Being a part of KawaNOW is a priviledge, not a right. As bad as that may sound to some of you, that is the truth. Noone can come into this forum that I built and say whatever they want. Being the admin, there are things that have happened behind the scenes that I've had to deal with. One of those is with Dan.

As I have stated in the past...it's all in the attitude. None of you really have seen Dan's attitude, but I and the staff have. So, having that said, unless you are standing in my shoes as the admin of KawaNOW, you don't really know the history of what Dan has said or done behind the scenes.

I asked for an apology to a group of men here on KawaNOW that Dan offended. He may not have offended you or the generation you are a member of, but given enough time, he probably would have because Dan felt no restraint as to what he could say on KawaNOW. He refused to give an apology and decided to slander me by calling me a racist. He methodically left the forum for a day or so, then came back to gain the sympathy of everyone. If he really felt he was in the right, why didn't he just talk to me about it? It's because Dan is a sensationalist. He likes the attention. In fact, that's why he makes the statements he does...to get a rise out of everyone and get attention.

In my opinion, Dan has duped some of you into giving him what he wants....attention.

If you or anyone else feels they must leave KawaNOW because of this, then I understand. I am trying to provide a safe place for everyone to talk about their Nomads. I made a promise to everyone that if that that safety was threatened in any way, I would act to keep the peace. No, I'm not perfect, but I'm trying as hard as I can.

Dan is not the first to be kicked off this forum. Welcome to my world as admin. Right or wrong, the buck stops with me. If Dan had offended you, you would want the same consideration. You don't have to like it...or agree with it...but that's the way it is.

So... go ahead and make your comments about how unfair I have been to Dan and how I'm taking away everyones freedom of speech and democracy. I'm sure Dan is loving every minute of the attention. Truth is, KawaNOW has never been a democracy and there's never been totally free speech. We all have to watch what we say and do. This arrangement has worked for the last three years and it will continue to work for the foreseeable future. Also keep in mind that the general membership doesn't know half of what's happened behind the scenes for the last 2 years with Dan.

You get to be a member of KawaNOW and safely peruse the forum because of these safety measures and process. Don't take that for granted.

This is all I'm going to say about this subject. If you feel you must leave, then do so, but if you want to stay, I'd be more than happy to have you.

[borto1990]

sad that it had to come down to this. to be honest, until this post came out, I've never even logged into that nmr board. I come here to read about nomads. I think I've only chatted with dan a few times in PM, so I didn't really know him. However, as still a kinda newbie to this, really only riding for 4 ish years now, I enjoyed seeing some of his posts and you tube videos, the guy could ride, taking the nomad places and doing things I and most would never. so I've enjoyed that. However, that being said, Trip is the boss IMO. like he said, most of us do not know what went on behind the scenes. personally I didn't get offended by what was said but maybe some did. The way I see it though, this isn't my house, being here for me is like me being a guest in someone's house and if I piss off the host, then I do what I have to do to correct it. If I can't, then I don't go to that house anymore.

[Todd]

Edit :Sorry, wrote this before I saw Trip's response...but seems to be some overlap.


OK folks. I won't post again about this - I have tried to stay out of it - agree or disagree I will not discuss any further.

Sorry Trip if this is too much, I will not lay it ALL out, however:

Here are a few facts -

- this is not the first time this person has been similarly banned from a forum and flamed the forum admins. Not even the first motorcycle forum.
- this is not completely due to one incident or one thread
- this has been an ongoing issue for a long time going back to a time before many of you joined.
- this was not for merely expressing an opinion

In addition -

- If you don't like it on the forum, then don't come back
- If you don't like a thread, don't read it
- There is no 'right' to do anything you want to do on the forum, there are rules for the privilege of posting here.
- this forum RARELY edits/deletes/changes/locks threads - hardly ever - especially when compared to a lot of online forums.

This is merely an online forum, a tiny dynamic of person to person interaction. I trust this online forum is not your entire life and worth getting so worked up about. I love reading posts here and love the personal friendships that have come out the forum..but they were really built outside a message board when I got to meet with or talk on the phone in person with people.

Since the forum has been in existence, I know of only 2 people that have ever been banned and they were for similar reasons (not for the opinions but for the ongoing way the people continued to express their thoughts that were not in a respectful manner - stirring the pot constantly you might say)....and there have been a lot of disagreements...most were conducted in a respectful manner.

NO, YOU DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTS AND HISTORY.

I hate it came to this, I really do. Dan and I have had disagreements in the past, we have talked on the phone a few times, and we were able to meet in person in Custer and have some good conversation mixed in with some points we did not agree on....Dan even commented that I was not at all what he expected and thought I could be the kind of person he could hang out with (don't really know what he had expected :-/ )...So if you are one that has been emailing him about the forum, tell him I said "HI" and I wish him the best though I am disappointed in his actions in the way this all played out. I went to send him that message on Facebook and learned that I had been deleted from his "Friend List"...and I was not even in on this current disagreement...so yeah, that pissed me off.

but it did happen...so make your decision and live with it. stay or go, post or don't post, agree or disagree, delete your account or don't....This is a great place to exchange info about Kawasaki Nomads and it will continue to be that through all of the bullsh*t ... and it will continue to grow.

And to paraphrase an old quote:

If you must vilify, condemn, and eternally disparage, why, resign your position, and when you are outside, damn to your heart’s content.


Good night and be content in your decision,

Todd

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Trip it was your decision and I have no problem with your decision. I followed all the threads and said part of what I wanted to say in some of them. You gave him the option of apologizing and he didn't. I felt that an apology was in order. Dan said he was leaving but didn't leave. Left you with no other option and I stand by your decision. Shows the man you are. I would have done the same.

[skeeter]

nice todd.

and NOW a shameless plug for the Hill Country Arts Foundation who are raising $30,000 for the dismantling, moving and and reassembly of the Stonehenge II from its current location above Hunt Tx ( propety being sold) to Foundation property in Ingram Tx. The exhibit is a favored stop for motorcyclists from all parts of the country.

Let's stick with what we have in common, motorcycles and related issues.

[billmac]

Please allow me to sound off in support of Kawanow Leadership.

I am a Christian, retired police officer, Viet Nam infantry vet, Democrat, supporter of President Obama, 2 war protestor, fiscal conservative, and resident of Texas. Good or bad, thats just who I am. I doubt anyone on Kawanow is going to change me. (Some may be shocked to hear all Nomad riders don't hate Obama or do hate endless wars)

In the past, I have taken time off from Kawanow as I sometimes grow tired of the assaulting discourse. Religous or Political discussions, Cop or Vet bashing, is not why I visit this site or attend Kawanow Rallys. I just want to visit and be with other friendly Nomad bikers. I am not trying to influence anyone's opinions and I realize we hold different beliefs.

Also, let's not lose site of who started and runs Kawanow. We all benefit from Kawanow and should respect the leadership. Name calling should not be tolerated. BTW, did someone call Trip a name on his site?

I appreciate Trip actively monitoring to insure the site reflects his goals. I am also happy he did not start this forum "...to give people freedom of speech or give them democracy, but to give them a place to learn more about their Nomads..."

I thank Trip for letting me visit his site and I recognize the grief he sometimes must bear. I know I never have all the facts and Trip must protect Kawanow. I trust the Kawanow Leadership to support Trip's mission. I hope we members do too.

Is there any validity to the accusations Dan makes about things Trip has said. If so, then this place has a huge problem. If not, then life moves on.