Kawwy should make a....

[redjay]

Originally Posted by ldhthept

Living in Florida I am really stuck on having a water cooled engine, I like the baggers and not ready to stop riding. GW, BMW, Moto Guzi, Ducati way too pricey and no one close works on them.

Consider a 1300 Yamaha V Star. They were made up to 2017. The Tourer model comes with bags and a windshield and the Deluxe (2013-2017) comes with bags, a batwing and a GPS, sound system and speakers.

With Ivans flash and an aftermarket intake they are good for 86hp and weigh 712 lbs.

[andyvh1959]

Too bad Kwasaki didn't develop the 1600 engine power wise like Indian has done the Scout engine. The specs of the two engines are comparable, but Indian sure got a lot more power out of their designs. Kawasaki knows how to make a powerful engine. But then, as it is now HD and Indian rule what's left of the big V-twin market.

[emtech]

Kawa should have invested in the 1700 bikes when they came out. I have a 2011 Vaquero. First year it came out. It was cheaper than the HD road glide. A much better value. Then nothing. Same bike year after year. Still set up for an iPod. What was the excuse then. The market was fine.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by emtech

Kawa should have invested in the 1700 bikes when they came out. I have a 2011 Vaquero. First year it came out. It was cheaper than the HD road glide. A much better value. Then nothing. Same bike year after year. Still set up for an iPod. What was the excuse then. The market was fine.

Probably won't happen. They don't see the value in it. I'd bet that line will be killed off soon. Seems the trend is smaller bikes and now we're seeing hybrids. Even HD is having issues moving inventory. The demo that buys big cruisers is shrinking.

[redjay]

Because of inflation I don't think there is much money left over for toys for the younger generation. Inflation has also taken a bite out of what people are trying to live on when retired and they are making their vehicles last as long as possible.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

Because of inflation I don't think there is much money left over for toys for the younger generation. Inflation has also taken a bite out of what people are trying to live on when retired and they are making their vehicles last as long as possible.

And the younger folks have different attitudes and tastes. In general, they aren't as motivated to get a license and drive let alone a motorcycle. Then there's the entry level salaries. Can they afford all of that? Insurance for people under 25 is quite high. Maybe the E Bikes will make inroads with the younger folks, who knows, but heavyweight cruisers, probably not and I'd bet Kawasaki and other marques understand all of this and more. I think it's why premiumization is a thing now. Milk the demo that buys these things as much as possible before they go away completely. Kawasaki and the other of the big 4 aren't chasing that demo anymore.

[The Black Knight]

Originally Posted by ponch

And the younger folks have different attitudes and tastes. In general, they aren't as motivated to get a license and drive let alone a motorcycle. Then there's the entry level salaries. Can they afford all of that? Insurance for people under 25 is quite high. Maybe the E Bikes will make inroads with the younger folks, who knows, but heavyweight cruisers, probably not and I'd bet Kawasaki and other marques understand all of this and more. I think it's why premiumization is a thing now. Milk the demo that buys these things as much as possible before they go away completely. Kawasaki and the other of the big 4 aren't chasing that demo anymore.

Ciao, amico mio. Sono totalmente d'accordo con Te e redjay.



Hi my friend. I totally agree with you and redjay.

[redjay]

Originally Posted by ponch

And the younger folks have different attitudes and tastes. In general, they aren't as motivated to get a license and drive let alone a motorcycle. Then there's the entry level salaries. Can they afford all of that? Insurance for people under 25 is quite high. Maybe the E Bikes will make inroads with the younger folks, who knows, but heavyweight cruisers, probably not and I'd bet Kawasaki and other marques understand all of this and more. I think it's why premiumization is a thing now. Milk the demo that buys these things as much as possible before they go away completely. Kawasaki and the other of the big 4 aren't chasing that demo anymore.

Insurance costs for all ages in Canada are high. For riders that don't do much mileage paying $1000 a year to ride 6 months of the year can be a deciding factor on whether to sell the bike or keep it for another year.

[andyvh1959]

I do wonder if Harley or Indian could produce a slightly smaller (1200cc) big cruiser dimension wise, but built more as a basic cruiser, 100hp/90+ ft-lb torque, air-oil cooled, aluminum frame, light weight wheels/radial tires, low seat height, with weight near 700 pounds max. Price point near $18,000. So many of the huge cruisers are simply more than a lot of the baby boomer market want or can live with.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by andyvh1959

I do wonder if Harley or Indian could produce a slightly smaller (1200cc) big cruiser dimension wise, but built more as a basic cruiser, 100hp/90+ ft-lb torque, air-oil cooled, aluminum frame, light weight wheels/radial tires, low seat height, with weight near 700 pounds max. Price point near $18,000. So many of the huge cruisers are simply more than a lot of the baby boomer market want or can live with.

Probably not air-oil cooled with those torque specs and then there's emissions standards. The sportster went away because of the latter. BMW makes a 1200cc boxer with similar HP ratings and a lot lighter than 700lbs, but cruiser folks seem to be hung up on vtwins.

[andyvh1959]

True, and the BMW flat twin is a good example. My 2007 R1200RT makes 110hp, and 92 ft-lb of torque, weighs near 600 lbs with seven gallons of fuel on board, can carry more than a full dresser Harley or Indian, even has shaft drive. But, it looks nothing like a Harley in any way, and it makes the hp and torque at least 3,000 rpm higher than a big V-twin. That is itself is a big challenge, as a typical big V-twin makes its HP and torque around 2800 rpm, which sells to the classic big V-twin buyer, LOTS of low end grunt, and lazy rumbling at highway speed.

Perhaps a better example is a Ducati V-twin Multistrada, making 113 hp and 71 ft-lb of torque, weighing only about 500 lbs, but again the HP and torque maxes out near 7.000 rpm, 2000 rpm higher than the typical power curve of a common big V-twin.
Harley and Indian

[redjay]

Originally Posted by ponch

Probably not air-oil cooled with those torque specs and then there's emissions standards. The sportster went away because of the latter. BMW makes a 1200cc boxer with similar HP ratings and a lot lighter than 700lbs, but cruiser folks seem to be hung up on vtwins.

For some older riders with leg issues a boxer engine wont work if you have to get your legs stretched out whenever possible. For me a feet forward V twin is all I can ride these days.

[andyvh1959]

True. I don't have hip or knee issues (now at 66, riding 52 years) so riding my BMW flat twins are little issue for me. But I have also gotten to like riding my 1600 Classic, which by next season will be a full dresser. On my BMWs I feel like I have to "take" the road. But on my Vulcan I feel like I just have to "ride" the road.

[redjay]

Originally Posted by andyvh1959

True. I don't have hip or knee issues (now at 66, riding 52 years) so riding my BMW flat twins are little issue for me. But I have also gotten to like riding my 1600 Classic, which by next season will be a full dresser. On my BMWs I feel like I have to "take" the road. But on my Vulcan I feel like I just have to "ride" the road.

I don't have hip or knee issues, its circulation and sciatica problems I have.
The straighter my legs are while riding the more comfortable I am.

[Chuck A.]

I've got the worn out knee replacements, worn out ankles and hips. To many years climbing poles and ladders for a living. Love the road sofa for a seat and large backrest on my 1700 but she is getting heavy on gravel and uneven ground when stopped. Yelp I too have to have my feet out from under my butt or its leg cramps to deal with. My Russell DL seat doesn't let me plant my feet solid and with the legs getting weaker through the years it's time for a change. But I am not leaving the 1700 Voyager. Way too much money invested to make it comfortable for me so just a few modifications over the winter months are gonna take place. More to come later.