Harley sells out to Honda

[simdog]

Originally Posted by rickyboy ... #00722

I knew it had to be a joke but printed it off and posted it at work to "get the goat" of every Harley guy there.

Here's another one that "gets their goat" ... except for maybe CJ's goat. Check out where the HD part was made.

[Dave]

I never thought the day would come when Made in Japan sounds so much better than Made in China.

[dennis49]

There is far more to the sound than a single crank pin, single carb and 45 degree angle. The whole valve timing and cam design is set to make this sound and this is why some of the newer Harleys sound more like all the other V twins. The newer multiple valve engine harleys sound more like the Japanese twins and these engines also run smoother than the two valve models. The Harley engine is designed around the sound and the Japanese engine have the sound that comes from the engine design only. If there were any money in it I'm sure that after market parts suppliers could come up with a cam grind that could come up with the same sound, put for the cost you could just get a Harley.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dennis49

There is far more to the sound than a single crank pin, single carb and 45 degree angle. The whole valve timing and cam design is set to make this sound and this is why some of the newer Harleys sound more like all the other V twins. The newer multiple valve engine harleys sound more like the Japanese twins and these engines also run smoother than the two valve models. The Harley engine is designed around the sound and the Japanese engine have the sound that comes from the engine design only. If there were any money in it I'm sure that after market parts suppliers could come up with a cam grind that could come up with the same sound, put for the cost you could just get a Harley.

The older HDs were single fire, right? It have it THAT sound. Today, the pistons fire individually, but they still sound almost the same. Why they haven't gone to 4 valve heads like the V2K I have no idea.

[glwilson]

A couple youtube vids that have the old carbed-sound.

The first starts out with a 2008 so you can compare today's sound with the older sound.

The last link is to a 1942 HD so you can even go back further to hear the sound.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

A couple youtube vids that have the old carbed-sound.

The first starts out with a 2008 so you can compare today's sound with the older sound.

The last link is to a 1942 HD so you can even go back further to hear the sound.

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/tech_evo.html

[cajun2wheels]

I copied and pasted this from an article about Harley history.Looks like Japan bailed out Harley.Great story to tell your Harley buddies.

It all started in the early 1930s, when the Harley-Davidson Motor Company, like everyone else, was mired in the Great Depression. By 1932, in fact, the Milwaukee factory was running at about 10 percent capacity, and sales were below 4,000 units a year.

One bright spot had been exports, but in Japan, Harley sales were also plummeting, because of an unfavourable exchange rate.

Enter Alfred Rich Child, an independent business agent authorized to represent Harley-Davidson in Japan, China, Korea and Manchuria.

Child figured he could reduce the retail price of a Harley to a Japanese customer if the machines were built in-country. He convinced the home office to sell Harley machine tools and licensing rights to the Japanese Sankyo Seiyako Corporation, which would build Harleys in Japan.

In dire straits, Harley agreed to the deal, and a new, Japanese-built model appeared under the “Rikuo” name. Roughly translated, Rikuo means “Land King,” or “King of Road.”

The deal continued for several years, until Harley-Davidson produced the EL 61 OHV Knucklehead in 1936. Child couldn’t convince Sankyo to buy the licensing rights for the new machine. That disagreement, coupled with the rise of a militaristic government in Japan, put an end to Child’s, and Harley’s, relationship with the Japanese Rikuo company.

[glwilson]

Japan made the bike for quite a few years after the split from HD without any changes from the original design. It didn't seem to matter since it continued to sell fairly well; and HD couldn't do anything to stop it.

Some would suggest that Harley actually jump-started the Japanese motorcycle industry with this agreement. Prior to that Japan didn't have a strong market for motorcycles. It wasn't too long after that several Japanese companies jumped into the market.

[drno]

We just need a random thing-a-ma-bob to cut out the spark randomly on each cylinder when idling on our bikes to give it that "I can barely run at idle" sound.

[Loafer]

Why don't you try rubbing your finger up and down on your lips, while making the raspberry sound?

[ponch]

Originally Posted by loafer

Why don't you try rubbing your finger up and down on your lips, while making the raspberry sound?

Or drink beer and eat lentil soup with hot dogs and sauerkraut.

[Loafer]

Originally Posted by ponch

Or drink beer and eat lentil soup with hot dogs and sauerkraut.

[skiman]

This is the accepted reason the Harley sounds like it does note it 2007 they changed ignition to duel fire
the potato potato isn't as strong on the newer bikes but it's still there they go by the house all day on the weekends and you can't miss that sound even on the brand new ones

The classic Harley-Davidson engines are two-cylinder, V-twin engines with the pistons mounted in a 45° "V". The crankshaft has a single pin, and both pistons are connected to this pin through their connecting rods.

This design causes the pistons to fire at uneven intervals, the consequence of an engineering tradeoff to create a large, powerful engine in a small space. This design choice is entirely vestigial from an engineering standpoint, but has been sustained because of the strong connection between the distinctive sound and the Harley-Davidson brand. This design, which is covered under several United States patents, gives the Harley-Davidson V-twin its unique choppy "potato-potato" sound. To simplify the engine and reduce costs, the V-twin ignition was designed to operate with a single set of points and no distributor, which is known as a dual fire ignition system, causing both spark plugs to fire regardless of which cylinder was on its compression stroke, with the other spark plug firing on its cylinder's exhaust stroke, effectively "wasting a spark." The exhaust note is basically a throaty growling sound with some popping.

The 45 degree design of the engine thus creates a plug firing sequencing as such: The first cylinder fires, the second (rear) cylinder fires 315° later, then there is a 405° gap until the first cylinder fires again, giving the engine its unique sound.
Harley Davidson has used various ignition systems throughout its history - be it the early points/condenser system, (Big Twin up to 1978 and Sportsters 1970 to 1978), magneto ignition system used on 1958 to 1969 Sportsters, early electronic with centrifugal mechanical advance weights, (all models 1978 and a half to 1979), or the late electronic with transistorized ignition control module, more familiarly known as the black box or the brain, (all models 1980 to present).

With the implementation of Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI), Harley Davidson uses a single fire ignition system on the models equipped with EFI, which now includes 100% of their product line with the introduction of the 2007 models.

[skiman]

this explains it pretty well if you listen to the bikes on the street you can hear the difference

The pototo potato disappeared with the new ignition on EFI models that only fires one cylinder at a time. No more wasted spark firing unburned gases in the pipes. Now the bikes say "Potate-Potate" rather than the the three syllable "potato-potato."

[skiman]

Originally Posted by dennis49

There is far more to the sound than a single crank pin, single carb and 45 degree angle. The whole valve timing and cam design is set to make this sound and this is why some of the newer Harleys sound more like all the other V twins. The newer multiple valve engine harleys sound more like the Japanese twins and these engines also run smoother than the two valve models. The Harley engine is designed around the sound and the Japanese engine have the sound that comes from the engine design only. If there were any money in it I'm sure that after market parts suppliers could come up with a cam grind that could come up with the same sound, put for the cost you could just get a Harley.

The vrod doesn't count even the Harley faithful don't embrace it
As far as the good ole air cooled 45degree twin it still has 2 valves per cylinder.