"REDS" P.O.G. just went out

[cactusjack]

If I owned a 99 Nomad with the POG, I wouldn't wait for it to fail, if you do you're running a huge risk of serious engine damage. Replace the POG before you need it. It's only a matter of time.

[minst7877]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

If I owned a 99 Nomad with the POG, I wouldn't wait for it to fail, if you do you're running a huge risk of serious engine damage. Replace the POG before you need it. It's only a matter of time.

Both of these bikes danimal's and mine had the plastic gear changed to judges gear I got 10000 miles out of mine and he got 20000 out of his. Right wrong indifferent we both believed we had proactively taken care of the problem. Looks more and more like the long term solution is splitting the case.

DC


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[danimal2]

Yep

Originally Posted by minst7877

Both of these bikes danimal's and mine had the plastic gear changed to judges gear I got 10000 miles out of mine and he got 20000 out of his. Right wrong indifferent we both believed we had proactively taken care of the problem. Looks more and more like the long term solution is splitting the case.

DC


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[danimal2]

I think I found the problem. 20,000 miles ago when I took this thing apart I checked the end play of the POG and shaft prior to cutting it off. Although it seemed excessive I figured it must have been o.k. it had been like that since new no doubt.

When I ordered the JOG I actually ordered a second thrust washer to put behind it to get rid of some of the slop. After some consideration I opted not to install that second washer.

As you can see in the video, this was probably my down fall. The video shows where the top of the gear was rubbing on the crankcase and could've caused this thing to fail. Looking at it all again, there's quite a bit of room on the outboard side of the gear before it would hit anything and it probably would've been better to space it that way a bit, and take out some of that slop. (aka second washer).

It might look like the screws are loose, but they're still lock tight'd and torqued. In fact I had to drill the head off one because It wouldn't come out and instead stripped the hex out of it.

I drained the oil and fished out all the bits of gear and that had fallen into the crankcase. My parts magnet bends in all different directions and I was able to reach directly below the hell hole and all the way across to the far side of the crankcase as well as quite a ways forward. Spent a lot of time fishing until nothing was coming out with the magnet. I'll probably leave the drain plug, oil screen, and filter off and flush it with some diesel fuel prior to refilling it with oil and new filter.

Short of pulling the motor it's about all I can do at this point.

[rolfe]

Can you take a picture of the shaft and post it up ? I don't do facebook.

[danimal2]

Well it looks like Rolfe is the only one reading this drivel. I've never let the fact that nobody's listening stop me before so I'll keep typing.

Got my SOG today (ordered it last week). Also got a referral for a machine shop to get the shaft gone and bore the hole in it. It almost looks like you could just send a drill through it, but I don't trust myself nor my el cheapo Chinese drill press so I'll take it to a machine shop referred by my local parts/serice shop. Prices have gone up boys. After tax and delivery I paid $75 for the SOG and I shopped around too.

I took the JOG the rest of the way off and it looks like I may have been mistaken in my original diagnosis/troubleshooting. The scarring on the crankcase was most likely causes after the gear loosened on the shaft, the teeth started going away and caused the gear to cant towards the inside. I checked and there's no way I could've fit another thrust washer behind the JOG. Just not enough room for it, so that bit of the diagnosis was wrong.

Since that wasn't the case and all the hardware was still tight, it looks like it just stripped the teeth off it (broke).

From day one after putting the JOG on I always said it seemed a bit noisier than it did before. Chalked it up to steel vs. nylon/plastic and the fact that it might need some time to run in. Guess not. I did get 20,000 miles on it before it took a dump so I guess it could have been worse. Also pretty easy to retrieve (close to home) when it broke.

The ground off gear teeth were laying in the bottom of the crankcase so this might be all for naught. It's worth a hundred bucks to try though. I spent a good bit of time cleaning it up with a magnet. Cleaned the screen and changed the filter. Pretty sure I got it all out and hoping what's left (if any) the oil filter will catch. I only paid $3900 for the bike. Got to ride it four years and put 40,000 miles so if it takes crap, I'll buy another one. This time 2000 or later and fuel injected.

[mick56]

And there you go.The JOG was alllways a dodgy fix.Phil Halling came up with the best way to do it.END OF STORY.

[minst7877]

I have been following this as I went thru the same thing. When my JOG failed it was because the bolt heads broke off. That allowed the gear to start oscillating which tore up the end of the gear shaft. No way to save the shaft so the engine came out and the case was split to put in a new gear. Sounds like your shaft didn't suffer any damage which is a very good thing.

DC


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[danimal2]

Yes. No damage to the shaft. Hopefully this is going to work for me.

I'd go your route (split the cases), but don't want to take it on myself which means shop time. I figure it would be close to a grand by the time all was said and done. As much as I like the bike, it's just not worth that kind of money and I'd try to find another for sale.

Thanks for posting up.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by danimal2

Well it looks like Rolfe is the only one reading this drivel. I've never let the fact that nobody's listening stop me before so I'll keep typing.

Got my SOG today (ordered it last week). Also got a referral for a machine shop to get the shaft gone and bore the hole in it. It almost looks like you could just send a drill through it, but I don't trust myself nor my el cheapo Chinese drill press so I'll take it to a machine shop referred by my local parts/serice shop. Prices have gone up boys. After tax and delivery I paid $75 for the SOG and I shopped around too.

I took the JOG the rest of the way off and it looks like I may have been mistaken in my original diagnosis/troubleshooting. The scarring on the crankcase was most likely causes after the teeth started going away and caused the gear to cant towards the inside. I checked and there's no way I could've fit another thrust washer behind the JOG. Just not enough room for it, so that bit of the diagnosis was wrong.

Since that wasn't the case and all the hardware was still tight, it looks like it just stripped the teeth off it (broke).

From day one after putting the JOG on I always said it seemed a bit noisier than it did before. Chalked it up to steel vs. nylon/plastic and the fact that it might need some time to run in. Guess not. I did get 20,000 miles on it before it took a dump so I guess it could have been worse. Also pretty easy to retrieve (close to home) when it broke.

The ground off gear teeth were laying in the bottom of the crankcase so this might be all for naught. It's worth a hundred bucks to try though. I spent a good bit of time cleaning it up with a magnet. Cleaned the screen and changed the filter. Pretty sure I got it all out and hoping what's left (if any) the oil filter will catch. I only paid $3900 for the bike. Got to ride it four years and put 40,000 miles so if it takes crap, I'll buy another one. This time 2000 or later and fuel injected.

The first question I have is, what is the condition the the mating gear...the gear that drove this gear. So I am guessing it is ok because I didn't read anything describing its condition.

Gear teeth "just don't strip off".

There is a good reason. Cause and effect. Something caused this to happen. The gear you see is the effect from the cause.

I would question the gear you have in your fingers and ask if it was heat treated properly or at all. When they are made they are soft so they can be machined. Then they should go out for heat treatment.

With what remains of the gear teeth on the gear body, a good machine shop should be able to tell you how hard those gear teeth are. They would use a Rockwell tester and it is a simple process that takes 2 or 3 minutes.

The shop should also be able to tell you what the hardness should be. If you check around I would look for a "gear" shop. Somebody that has a good background in making gears. Here in town we have a shop that only makes gears. I have made gear blanks, sent the gears out to be hobbed, then out for heat treatment.

They next question would be to ask if the gear was made out of the correct material. They should be able to give you an idea if it is a good stock to use for making gears. Because the manufacture could have used a soft material that was inappropriate for this application.

After you get your ducks in a row I would contact the manufacture of the gear and ask them to explain what gives with their product.

My best guess, they didn't do something correct when making this gear.

[minst7877]

Originally Posted by danimal2

Yes. No damage to the shaft. Hopefully this is going to work for me.

I'd go your route (split the cases), but don't want to take it on myself which means shop time. I figure it would be close to a grand by the time all was said and done. As much as I like the bike, it's just not worth that kind of money and I'd try to find another for sale.

Thanks for posting up.

Multiply your estimate by 3 and you will be a whole lot closer to the right price. Almost 1800 just in parts for mine plus what I paid the tech.

DC


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[danimal2]

Originally Posted by minst7877

Multiply your estimate by 3 and you will be a whole lot closer to the right price. Almost 1800 just in parts for mine plus what I paid the tech.

DC

Ouch! Yep not worth it at this late stage of the game. They routinely sell 2000-2005 for 3-4k around here.


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Ouch! Yep not worth it at this late stage of the game. They routinely sell 2000-2005 for 3-4k around here. As much as i like my greenie, I would just buy a different bike.

[mick56]

Where did the $1800 go,i thought it would be just the shaft and a few gaskets & seals,or did you rebuild the motor with new parts.

[Bud2rat]

Originally Posted by danimal2

Ouch! Yep not worth it at this late stage of the game. They routinely sell 2000-2005 for 3-4k around here. As much as i like my greenie, I would just buy a different bike.

Hey danimal, I'll sell you my 2001. I just bought a 2013 Voyager. Robert.

[danimal2]

I've always liked your bike. Hopefully (with any luck) I won't have to replace it with anything.

I seriously looked at the Voyagers. They're more money, but I like em. Also kinda toyed with the idea of a Victory if/when I go to replace mine. Obviously both those would be considerably more money.

I checked your profile. Where are the photos of that new ride?