2015 Kawasakis

[redjay]

I think the general perception of BMW is that they make great products but from what I read on here their motorcycles leave a lot to be desired.

As stated in the post above I think Honda makes motorcycles that are more reliable in every respect, at a lower price.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

I think the general perception of BMW is that they make great products but from what I read on here their motorcycles leave a lot to be desired.

As stated in the post above I think Honda makes motorcycles that are more reliable in every respect, at a lower price.

That's part of the equation. It's like saying Boeing makes more reliable aircraft than airbus. OK. The thing is, if BMWs or HDs were so bad, they'd go out of business already. Also, generally speaking, they appeal to different marketing segments. I wish scott would jump in on this…It's like the old saw, cheap, fast and good as I saw in a barber shop. Pick two. You want highest reliability and low cost of purchase, then there is somewhere in the equation where that has to be balanced out. Look at an Ultra Limited and Voyager. The voyager is a better value, but does it have all the features and quality the limited does? No. You can't have that for $17K. Kawasaki couldn't do it at $19K before they dropped the price. The interesting thing is that to get a goldwing with ABS, it will cost $28K. That's a lot of scarole for 2002 technology. You'd need a passenger to figure out which buttons to press. So there there value/reliability/functionality/features paradigm is skewed differently. Expensive and old tech, but reliable as hell. A lot to ask for one out of three. Same with the F6B. $21K and no ABS. At that price there are some other interesting choices.

FWIW, I have have non-negotiables on cars and bikes when I go shopping, regardless of price. I also get irked by poorly executed designs, meaning stuff that comes off cheap. If I can't afford what I want, I'll wait until I can. To that end, I don't care if it's BMW, HD, Victory, Indian, whatever. It's got to be good. Good is good. Bad isn't, neither is mediocre. It's like getting spoiled by drinking 18 year old Macallan. I won't even drink Johnny Walker anymore. It's shit. Once you see what's possible, it changes the point of view.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

I think the general perception of BMW is that they make great products but from what I read on here their motorcycles leave a lot to be desired.

As stated in the post above I think Honda makes motorcycles that are more reliable in every respect, at a lower price.

BTW, I give the BMW Kool-Aid drinkers hell because I think BMW can have Honda reliability for the same money. I'd be better off bringing up oil or car tires.

[redjay]

BMW and Harley might go out of business if their perceived reliability were correctly assessed before purchase.

There will always be people that buy the name rather than the product behind the name.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

BMW and Harley might go out of business if their perceived reliability were correctly assessed before purchase.

There will always be people that buy the name rather than the product behind the name.

Taking reliability out of it, do you think that a Vulcan Voyager is on the same level as a HD touring bike? Interesting videos below that echo what a lot of what other reviewers have said. At some point there is something to a name, otherwise I might as well be drinking coors light and cutty sark, god help us no. There is real quality in life and in what man creates. Sometimes we have to pay for it.

[redjay]

Why take reliability out of the equation ? I would have had to pay $12,000 more for a new Victory or Harley than I paid for the Voyager with only 2400 kms on it.
It served me well for 3 years with no issues apart from a leaking rear shock replaced under warranty. $12,000 more for a bike that maybe goes around corners a little better or has a 4 speaker stereo, I don't think so.

[landman]

Originally Posted by ponch

BTW, I give the BMW Kool-Aid drinkers hell because I think BMW can have Honda reliability for the same money. I'd be better off bringing up oil or car tires.

so what kind of oil do you run in your bmw jim ?

[ponch]

Originally Posted by landman

so what kind of oil do you run in your bmw jim ?

Mobil 1.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

Why take reliability out of the equation ? I would have had to pay $12,000 more for a new Victory or Harley than I paid for the Voyager with only 2400 kms on it.
It served me well for 3 years with no issues apart from a leaking rear shock replaced under warranty. $12,000 more for a bike that maybe goes around corners a little better or has a 4 speaker stereo, I don't think so.

And I've had similar fortunes with my bike. I didn't pay what a HD costs either as it was a leftover. I could have gotten the current year, but they made some changes that had minor problems with switch gear. In essence, mine was the last year of it's design, which was a year 5. Now, the new water cooled boxers seems to be doing much better than some of the previous introductions, even considering the shock issue with the RT, which wasn't a BMW part and the interesting thing is that Moto Guzzi recalled bikes that used the same shock body which is made by Marzocchi. The K1600 bikes, I'd leave alone.

May be we can ask Brad what made the XCT worth $12K more, same with CJ on the Limited.

[cactusjack]

I have had *zero* reliability problems with my Harley.Many of my friends own Harleys, none of them have had reliability issues. It's what I would expect from a premium touring motorcycle. Yes, Harleys had reliability issues forty years ago when AMF owned them, those days are long gone. Like Jim said, once you know what's possible, that's what you aim for. If I wanted a new bike, the HD dealer would be the first place I would go. We can debate this until the cows come home, but either you can see the value in buying an expensive "anything" (bike, car, boat, house) or you can't. Some guys won't pay $25,000 for a motorcycle because it just isn't worth it to them. That's fine. These are the guys that keep Honda and Kawasaki in business. I drive a 6 year old Ford Expedition, it's a nice vehicle but I can't bring myself to spend $50-$60k on a new one. I'd rather have a nice motorcycle. That's just how I am.

[redjay]

I guess I fall into the category of one of the guys who won't pay $25,000 for a motorcycle because it just isn't worth it to them. I wont spend $25,000 on a new motorcycle to ride 6 months of the year. I keep them about 3 years to minimize depreciation.

[dmyers]

I am a Kawasaki guy, I have always been a Kawasaki guy. As long as Kawasaki makes a type of bike that I want to ride That is what I will own.
I have ridden just about every brand of cruiser made and there all good.
I have a vaquero now, to my eye it's the hands down best looking cruiser you can by. Is it the fastest best handling most comfortable bike on the market,, I don't give a shit.
It's fast enough for a cruiser it will go through the corners faster than I want to (and that ain't slow) I have it fixed up with a good seat, highway pegs, backrest it's got cruse and built in stereo and I can ride it all day step off of it for 20 minutes and it's like I was never on it. So what more could I want. Any other brand is just going to offer a different flavor of the same ride
I also have a KLR and it's a great duel sport just wish it had about twice as much power and sense Kawasaki doesn't offer anything like that I am allowed to look elsewhere LOL

[schoeney]

The Metrics are the Apple and Toyota of motorcycles. Not leading edge but just a tad behind (mostly by design) but reliable as hell.
I will take that over leading edge and a bit problematic all day long.

Crazy fact...my "old tech" St1300 is faster, quicker, lighter than the BMW flagship K1600 and quicker/faster than several other like models according to MCN independent testing. But speed is not everything.

Not to mention my "old tech" V4 engine is so reliable that it is being installed in many new models. Kinda like how BMW recycles the Boxer and HD recycles the Evolution. Hardly new technology.

Now don't get me wrong , the thing that distinguishes BMW is not their engines but the electronics and other additional features but lets not imply the metrics are light years behind in technology, because they are not.

Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda build some great bikes.

There are people who believe the metrics are a step up from BMW and HD. Just depends on what factors are important to the individual.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by schoeney

The Metrics are the Apple and Toyota of motorcycles. Not leading edge but just a tad behind (mostly by design) but reliable as hell.
I will take that over leading edge and a bit problematic all day long.

Crazy fact...my "old tech" St1300 is faster, quicker, lighter than the BMW flagship K1600 and quicker/faster than several other like models according to MCN independent testing. But speed is not everything.

Not to mention my "old tech" V4 engine is so reliable that it is being installed in many new models. Kinda like how BMW recycles the Boxer and HD recycles the Evolution. Hardly new technology.

Now don't get me wrong , the thing that distinguishes BMW is not their engines but the electronics and other additional features but lets not imply the metrics are light years behind in technology, because they are not.

Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda build some great bikes.

There are people who believe the metrics are a step up from BMW and HD. Just depends on what factors are important to the individual.

Look at the options available for an RT or KGTL. No metric or domestic comes close. The UI for the GW is something from the 80s. It's hideous and inefficient. Apple or BMW could teach Honda about UI. I also wouldn't compare Apple with metrics. Steve Jobs was a big fan of BMW motorcycles and Mercedes cars. That's the level that he was shooting for, not toyota or honda. Lastly, while BMW bikes have some issues, it's not like they are littering the roads with parts and stranded riders.

Some people drive Chevy's, some drive Mercedes, both will get you where you want to go, but they are not the same.

[dank]

Ponch, I have been especially impressed by the water pumps on the K1600s. None of the metrics have yet come up with an option like that: a "must replace frequently and carry a spare just in case" water pump. Shows the innovative thought and excellence of engineering that characterize the BMWS!