2nd gear supercharger boost or stuck throttle??

BentNahl · 08-20-2023, 12:34 PM

I just upgraded from a Vulcan 900 and purchased a used 2020 Voyager 1700. When I open up the throttle in second gear it starts to accelerate normally until it hits 4000 rpm when it suddenly surges forward like I flipped the switch on a supercharger. Almost lost control if the bike the first time it happened. Any idea what's causing this behavior?

redjay · 08-20-2023, 10:51 PM

Does the bike have an aftermarket air intake ?
Has the ECU been reprogrammed (flashed) ?

BentNahl · 08-21-2023, 08:44 AM

Bike is stock with no modifications yet. New exhaust, intake and Ivanizing are planned

redjay · 08-21-2023, 11:16 AM

I cant remember if I ever had my 2010 Voyager up to 4,000 rpms, I don't think so.

I had Chucksters intake on it (good) and a Cobra Powrpro (disappointing). Ivans flash was not available at that time.

Your bike might be perfectly normal for a stock Voyager at 4,000 rpms.

Are you sure the ECU has not been flashed ? Ivan puts a sticker on his flashed ECU's and etches a number onto the ECU.

BentNahl · 08-21-2023, 02:06 PM

I just picked up the bike this weekend. I traded up from a Vulcan 900. After spending 4 hours on it Sunday I came go the conclusion the 1700 likes to run at a lower rpm than the 900. The dealer assured me the bike is stock. There are no aftermarket parts visible but I'll definitely take a look at the ECU to confirm this evening

Ozymandias · 08-21-2023, 07:07 PM

I remember when I test rode the 2010 Voyager I have now, I had a similar reaction as I approached higher revs. Maybe it is a characteristic of the bike. I will have to re-test to make sure.

BentNahl · 08-21-2023, 09:16 PM

Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. I've never experienced this with a bike. It's a little disconcerting to have it surge like that. As long as I kept the rpm under 4k it doesn't surge

redjay · 08-22-2023, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BentNahl

I just picked up the bike this weekend. I traded up from a Vulcan 900. After spending 4 hours on it Sunday I came go the conclusion the 1700 likes to run at a lower rpm than the 900. The dealer assured me the bike is stock. There are no aftermarket parts visible but I'll definitely take a look at the ECU to confirm this evening

The dealer would never know if the ECU had been flashed unless he looked at the ECU or the owner trading in the bike told them, both of which is unlikely.

andyvh1959 · 08-22-2023, 12:46 PM

I've ridden my buddy's VN900 and I regularly get it up to 4000 rpm just to get to highway speed. At 4000 rpm the VN900 only makes about 38 hp at the rear wheel, maybe as high as 42 hp at the rear wheel at 5,500 rpm. Torque at the rear wheel is maybe 50 ft lb at about 3,000 rpm.

A VN1700 spins much lower rpm to get up to speed. But even at 4000 rpm it makes about 60 to 65 hp at the rear wheel, over 57% higher power at the rear wheel than the VN900. Its the torque that the VN1700 makes really feels different. Rear wheel torque on the 1700 maxes out at about 2800 rpm. but even at 4000 rpm it makes over 80 ft lb of torque at the rear wheel, a 60% increase versus the VN900. You are just feeling the much greater torque of the VN1700 versus the VN900.

Adjust your riding style for the VN1700, and rev the engine between 2,000 to 3,500 to get plenty of satisfying power for riding in general. Simpoly don't have to spin the VN1700 up past 4000 to have more than enough power to enjoy the ride.

BentNahl · 08-24-2023, 08:50 PM

I spent an hour talking to RacnRay on the phone. Really nice guy who doesn't mind sharing his vast fount of knowledge. Ray says the 1700 transmissions are prone to gear fork and second gear failure due to design. Taking bike back to dealer to have it fixed

redjay · 08-24-2023, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BentNahl

I spent an hour talking to RacnRay on the phone. Really nice guy who doesn't mind sharing his vast fount of knowledge. Ray says the 1700 transmissions are prone to gear fork and second gear failure due to design. Taking bike back to dealer to have it fixed

To have what fixed ?

andyvh1959 · 08-25-2023, 02:51 AM

Hate to sound negative, but unless the bike exhibited shifting issues when you test rode it, or it was described as having transmission issues, not likely at all that the dealer will "fix it". Especially since, to repair almost anything in the transmission means the engine comes out of the frame and the engine gets broken down entirely. A trans issue on VN1700 and VN1600 Vulcans can easily cost over $2000 to repair. If your 1700 shifts normally right now there is nothing to "fix".

Kawasaki big v-twins are known to have potential 2nd gear shifting issues, especially if the rider beats on the shifter/power shifts through 2nd and 3rd gear. If you are careful with your shifting and don't beat on the bike it'll likely never have a transmission issue. I bought my VN1600 cheap, $1200, with only 30,000 miles on it, with a LOT of nice accessories and updates, in very clean condition. But it was a cheap buy because 2nd gear didn't work. My guess is the original owner liked to put down Harleys by showing what his 1600 could do, until the 2nd gear failed. I got it cheap, knowing I'd have to take the engine apart to fix the transmission issue.

redjay · 08-25-2023, 12:07 PM

A forum member had 2nd gear fail on his 2010 Voyager but there was over 400,000 kms on the bike at the time. He replaced the engine with a used one and that bike now has around 800,000 kms on it.

BentNahl · 08-27-2023, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redjay

To have what fixed ?

I should say have it checked out

andyvh1959 · 08-28-2023, 11:03 AM

Something to help your shifting accuracy: when getting ready to shift, preload the shifter to take up any slack/play in the system, then use maybe a 1/4 clutch lever action and barely any throttle chop, and the next gear will click in positively. Preloading the shifter and minimal clutch action gives you quicker shifts and more consistent shifts. Also, this technique minimizes engine RPM drop between shifts which minimizes engine/trans lugging.

I've done this for decades on my flat twin BMWs and also applied the same technique on my VN1600 Classic. I actually took the heel shifter off my VN1600 as I prefer the more accurate feel of toe shifting versus heel shifting. Plus I suspect the previous owner of my 1600 used the heel shifter to hammer in the gears while running the bike hard between the gears. I say that because the bike as I bought it had a lot of play in the shift linkage, had all the popular mods installed; smog system/solenoids gone, Cobra straight through exhaust, Power Commander, Baron air intake, etc, etc. Plus it had stickers on it from Sturgis so I wouldn't be surprised he was showing the HD crowd what a Vulcan can do. That is until 2nd gear failed, which is most likely a failed or bent shifting fork.

08-20-2023, 12:34 PM	#1
BentNahl Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 7	2nd gear supercharger boost or stuck throttle?? I just upgraded from a Vulcan 900 and purchased a used 2020 Voyager 1700. When I open up the throttle in second gear it starts to accelerate normally until it hits 4000 rpm when it suddenly surges forward like I flipped the switch on a supercharger. Almost lost control if the bike the first time it happened. Any idea what's causing this behavior? Login or Register to Remove Ads Last edited by BentNahl; 08-21-2023 at 02:13 PM.
	0

08-21-2023, 11:16 AM	#4
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,982	I cant remember if I ever had my 2010 Voyager up to 4,000 rpms, I don't think so. I had Chucksters intake on it (good) and a Cobra Powrpro (disappointing). Ivans flash was not available at that time. Your bike might be perfectly normal for a stock Voyager at 4,000 rpms. Are you sure the ECU has not been flashed ? Ivan puts a sticker on his flashed ECU's and etches a number onto the ECU. Last edited by redjay; 08-21-2023 at 11:19 AM.
	1

08-21-2023, 02:06 PM	#5
BentNahl Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 7	I just picked up the bike this weekend. I traded up from a Vulcan 900. After spending 4 hours on it Sunday I came go the conclusion the 1700 likes to run at a lower rpm than the 900. The dealer assured me the bike is stock. There are no aftermarket parts visible but I'll definitely take a look at the ECU to confirm this evening Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

08-21-2023, 07:07 PM	#6
Ozymandias Jr. Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 22	I remember when I test rode the 2010 Voyager I have now, I had a similar reaction as I approached higher revs. Maybe it is a characteristic of the bike. I will have to re-test to make sure. __________________ 1975 Goldwing(found a good home for it) 2003 Nomad (traded) 2010 Voyager
	1

08-22-2023, 12:46 PM	#9
andyvh1959 Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Green Bay WI Posts: 768	I've ridden my buddy's VN900 and I regularly get it up to 4000 rpm just to get to highway speed. At 4000 rpm the VN900 only makes about 38 hp at the rear wheel, maybe as high as 42 hp at the rear wheel at 5,500 rpm. Torque at the rear wheel is maybe 50 ft lb at about 3,000 rpm. A VN1700 spins much lower rpm to get up to speed. But even at 4000 rpm it makes about 60 to 65 hp at the rear wheel, over 57% higher power at the rear wheel than the VN900. Its the torque that the VN1700 makes really feels different. Rear wheel torque on the 1700 maxes out at about 2800 rpm. but even at 4000 rpm it makes over 80 ft lb of torque at the rear wheel, a 60% increase versus the VN900. You are just feeling the much greater torque of the VN1700 versus the VN900. Adjust your riding style for the VN1700, and rev the engine between 2,000 to 3,500 to get plenty of satisfying power for riding in general. Simpoly don't have to spin the VN1700 up past 4000 to have more than enough power to enjoy the ride. __________________ My $1200 Vulcan, to start from.
	1

08-20-2023, 10:51 PM	#2
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,982	Does the bike have an aftermarket air intake ? Has the ECU been reprogrammed (flashed) ?
	0

08-21-2023, 08:44 AM	#3
BentNahl Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 7	Bike is stock with no modifications yet. New exhaust, intake and Ivanizing are planned
	0

08-21-2023, 09:16 PM	#7
BentNahl Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 7	Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. I've never experienced this with a bike. It's a little disconcerting to have it surge like that. As long as I kept the rpm under 4k it doesn't surge
	0

08-24-2023, 08:50 PM	#10
BentNahl Jr. Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 7	I spent an hour talking to RacnRay on the phone. Really nice guy who doesn't mind sharing his vast fount of knowledge. Ray says the 1700 transmissions are prone to gear fork and second gear failure due to design. Taking bike back to dealer to have it fixed
	0

08-25-2023, 02:51 AM	#12
andyvh1959 Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Green Bay WI Posts: 768	Hate to sound negative, but unless the bike exhibited shifting issues when you test rode it, or it was described as having transmission issues, not likely at all that the dealer will "fix it". Especially since, to repair almost anything in the transmission means the engine comes out of the frame and the engine gets broken down entirely. A trans issue on VN1700 and VN1600 Vulcans can easily cost over $2000 to repair. If your 1700 shifts normally right now there is nothing to "fix". Kawasaki big v-twins are known to have potential 2nd gear shifting issues, especially if the rider beats on the shifter/power shifts through 2nd and 3rd gear. If you are careful with your shifting and don't beat on the bike it'll likely never have a transmission issue. I bought my VN1600 cheap, $1200, with only 30,000 miles on it, with a LOT of nice accessories and updates, in very clean condition. But it was a cheap buy because 2nd gear didn't work. My guess is the original owner liked to put down Harleys by showing what his 1600 could do, until the 2nd gear failed. I got it cheap, knowing I'd have to take the engine apart to fix the transmission issue. __________________ My $1200 Vulcan, to start from. Last edited by andyvh1959; 08-25-2023 at 02:58 AM.
	1

08-25-2023, 12:07 PM	#13
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,982	A forum member had 2nd gear fail on his 2010 Voyager but there was over 400,000 kms on the bike at the time. He replaced the engine with a used one and that bike now has around 800,000 kms on it. Last edited by redjay; 09-26-2023 at 09:04 PM.
	2

08-28-2023, 11:03 AM	#15
andyvh1959 Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Green Bay WI Posts: 768	Something to help your shifting accuracy: when getting ready to shift, preload the shifter to take up any slack/play in the system, then use maybe a 1/4 clutch lever action and barely any throttle chop, and the next gear will click in positively. Preloading the shifter and minimal clutch action gives you quicker shifts and more consistent shifts. Also, this technique minimizes engine RPM drop between shifts which minimizes engine/trans lugging. I've done this for decades on my flat twin BMWs and also applied the same technique on my VN1600 Classic. I actually took the heel shifter off my VN1600 as I prefer the more accurate feel of toe shifting versus heel shifting. Plus I suspect the previous owner of my 1600 used the heel shifter to hammer in the gears while running the bike hard between the gears. I say that because the bike as I bought it had a lot of play in the shift linkage, had all the popular mods installed; smog system/solenoids gone, Cobra straight through exhaust, Power Commander, Baron air intake, etc, etc. Plus it had stickers on it from Sturgis so I wouldn't be surprised he was showing the HD crowd what a Vulcan can do. That is until 2nd gear failed, which is most likely a failed or bent shifting fork. __________________ My $1200 Vulcan, to start from. Last edited by andyvh1959; 09-21-2023 at 02:04 PM.
	0