Gas High test no ethanol vs reg with ethanol

[joe3407nomad]

O'k, I'm reading about ethanol in another blog and I'm wondering about the other end of the scale. my local gas station has high test, 93 no ethanol for about $3.15 a gal. which I run. I have an 07, (fuel injected) what would the difference be if I run the reg. 87 with ethanol.
Thanks

[Top Cat]

Well the bike would probably ping caused by pre detonation. The Nomads are recommended to run at least 91 octane I believe.
As far as the ethanol I run it in my 07 Nomad and no problems yet.
I have a Drifter that has a carb and I will run an additive in that this year to counter act the moisture build up from ethanol.

[ringadingh]

If you install a fuel processor, like a Dynajet or Power commander you could run Regular 87 octane. Thats all Ive ever put in my bike, I tried hightest and couldn't notice a difference in power or mileage.
On the other hand when I add some Seafoam time to time, I can feel the difference in the bike.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

You would need to install a fuel modulator if you want to run 87 octane. Tim is correct about the octane except it is 90 octane or better. The problem I have here in Alabama is our octanes are 87, 89 and 91 and sometimes 93. So you have to run 91 or 93 as the other two are below the minimum. What I do is one tank fill will the premium or high octane and the next with the 89 octane. That way my tank always has at least the 90 octane required. Although you can run 87 with the fuel modulator. I don't but could if I wanted to.

[MarkG]

The factory mechanics told me early on to run 87, or maybe 89 should the 87 not work, if there was no pinging. Their argument, it didn't carbon up the engine as fast. The owner's manual says one thing and the engineers will tell a different story out of school. Some bikes like it, others will not. I know CJ consistently runs higher octane than I do. When I get into high altitudes, over 8,000 feet, I will switch to premium for better performance. My '08 is stock with no mods and so far I have had zero problems with 87 octane.

[lonewolf]

I was getting an occasional ping even with the 91 octane. I put in the cobra processor and ping has gone away completely, even with running 87 octane now. I now have Chucksters single plate intake and this bike now runs like it should !!

[ringadingh]

If it doesn't ping or knock on 87 thats good enough, your not harming the engine. The extra octane isn't neccessary to prevent pre detonation.

[trosco]

Hey Markg,
You should be doing the oposite. The higher the altitude the less dense the air and hence, with the Nomad style FI, the richer the mixture becomes. A richer mixture surpress's ignition just like the higher Octane fuels do. So you should be better able to run lower octane fuels at high altitudes and you should need a higher octane fuel as you get closer to sea level.
The same effects occur with air temps. At 105 dgrees the air is less dense than at 35 degrees. So in the summer in Yuma AZ you will probably need premium and in Feb in Flagstaff AZ you will probably be fine with regular.
Our fuel injection controllers are devices that allow richening the mixture over the stock FI settings. By doing that we are able to improve the driveability of the bikes (they are extremely lean in stock form below 1800 RPM) and the richer mixture surpresses pre-ignition (spark knock or ping) which often allows running a lower octane fuel.

[joe3407nomad]

Is this site not the most intelligent bunch? I'm just saying!
Thanks Rosco, good info and it makes sense, imagine that.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by trosco

Hey Markg,
You should be doing the oposite. The higher the altitude the less dense the air and hence, with the Nomad style FI, the richer the mixture becomes. A richer mixture surpress's ignition just like the higher Octane fuels do. So you should be better able to run lower octane fuels at high altitudes and you should need a higher octane fuel as you get closer to sea level.
The same effects occur with air temps. At 105 dgrees the air is less dense than at 35 degrees. So in the summer in Yuma AZ you will probably need premium and in Feb in Flagstaff AZ you will probably be fine with regular.
Our fuel injection controllers are devices that allow richening the mixture over the stock FI settings. By doing that we are able to improve the driveability of the bikes (they are extremely lean in stock form below 1800 RPM) and the richer mixture surpresses pre-ignition (spark knock or ping) which often allows running a lower octane fuel.

True. And when i went to Colorado last year, I saw 85 octane at the pump. Obviously there was a good reason for it...If the Nomad had a closed loop feed back system, all this would be moot. Having to run premium with a bike that has 9.5:1 compression underscores that problem. I wonder if the 1700's have an O2 sensor or require premium? The one thing that does amaze me about the RT is that it has 12:1 compression and can run on 89. It does run better on premium though and the OM says so, but it will run on it.

My Nomad would ping on anything less than 91. I had to put 89 in a couple times and it was a learning experience: Fuel up on proper fuel as often as you can. In a lot of rural areas of Iowa, it's 87 or 89.

[trosco]

Exactly Ponch.
BWM (auto and motorcycle) has been one of the pioneers in intellegent FI systems. Not only does your bike have a O2 sensors that tell the FI control how effectively the fuel/air mixture is being burned (too rich/too lean) it has "knock" sensors that tell the ignition control if the event (the start of fuel combustion in each cylinder) is optimally timed. On the fly hundereds of times per second with input from the throttle position and gear selection those system combine to create the perfect combustion event.
The Knock sensors tell the brain that you have switched from premium fuel to the lower octane fuels and it retards the timing of the event. This reduces the power output but protects your high compression egine from a catastrophic event such as preignition can cause, i.e. broken compression rings or broken piston ring lands.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by trosco

Exactly Ponch.
BWM (auto and motorcycle) has been one of the pioneers in intellegent FI systems. Not only does your bike have a O2 sensors that tell the FI control how effectively the fuel/air mixture is being burned (too rich/too lean) it has "knock" sensors that tell the ignition control if the event (the start of fuel combustion in each cylinder) is optimally timed. On the fly hundereds of times per second with input from the throttle position and gear selection those system combine to create the perfect combustion event.
The Knock sensors tell the brain that you have switched from premium fuel to the lower octane fuels and it retards the timing of the event. This reduces the power output but protects your high compression egine from a catastrophic event such as preignition can cause, i.e. broken compression rings or broken piston ring lands.

Exactly. Without a knock sensor it doesn't work so well. :) I am sure there are other bikes that use such systems, I just wonder why Kaw holds back on the tech with their cruisers as opposed to the Ninjas. The tech could be applied across the board.

[glwilson]

Nomads don't have O2 sensors?

[ringadingh]

No they don't Greg. They are actually a rather primitive FI system.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

Nomads don't have O2 sensors?

Up to 2008 did not. The new ones might, but I couldn't say.