Swing arm maintenace

[Idaho]

With my rear wheel off of the bike and most of the stuff out of the way I'm contemplating a lube job for the swing are bearings. (not even sure why there are bearings here as opposed to a brass sleeve but that is not the point) Gadgets page gives great directions on how to lube the bearings and also how to modify the sleeve with grooves to facilitate the transfer of grease to the bearings. It started me to thinking about the groves along the axis of the sleeve relative to the needle bearings. Won't the bearings have a tendency to 'fall' into the grooves? Also it seems that it may be worth it to have to dis-assemble the swing arm for proper inspection and maintenance and may be a valid reason to not install a zerk. So I thought that I would refer this quandry to those far smarter than I for opinions. Hope this makes sense.
Thanks, Idaho

[VulcanE]

Idaho, I agree that there is benefit to tearing it down for visual inspection. It's not hard to do, just a little time consuming, but at least I KNOW that my stuff's all good!!!!!!!

[richardd]

THE GROVES ARE ON SPACER JUST TO FEED LUBE OUT TO THE END

[ringadingh]

VulcanE is correct, With the rear wheel already off, its not that much more work for the peace of mind in checking the swingarm. Last spring I did mine as well as lubing the driveshaft. I didnt modify anything for grease fittings, because I like to visually check the parts myself for wear and tear. Also for the limited amount of maintenance required in this area its not that big of a deal to pull it apart every couple seasons.

[macmac]

Ringadingh, How did you lube the drive shaft? Or do you mean just the ends? So far as I know the U Joint has no way to get lube in it.

If nothing else that swing arm lube allows inspection of the U Joint, which should be checked since many are flawed from the factory!

Don't forget to smear the splines with moly on the gear spline under assembly.

[ringadingh]

I had the drive shaft right out completely, and lubed both ends. The U joint does not have any way of greasing unless you take it off the shaft and disassemble it on the bench. Mine appeared to be in good shape still, so I smeared it with grease around the cups and put it back in the bike. I used a moly grease on the shaft and swingarm.

[macmac]

Thanks for the reply. My 01 had no grease on one plane of action in the U Joint and was rather stiff from 22,000 miles with no lube what so ever. It was fine in the other plane of action, but it needs both planes to move correctly.

At the time I had a the Good Times Policy, and so had to suffer the new shaft being installed by the dealer. That was a bit nutty as i was smoking mad at the dealer in Chadron Nebraska, and wanted nothing to do with the dealer in Cal.

The bike was apart on Cadd's lift with the whole ft end down as well as the back. I just wanted a new shaft 'we' could install, meaning mostly Cadd could install, since I was a tad sore from a recent crash.

Since then Cadd found you can buy the joint separetly I think, as it is the very same one used on a 4 wheeler.

That joint was bad from before day 1. One way or another air was trapped, and so one plane was never lubed. There are many joints out there under this set of circumstances too, and so it is important that rear swing arm be serviced so the joint can be inspected.

I'ld hate to be riding and have it fail. On my bike there wasn't any indication that joint was bad either. I made no noises, and I couldn't feel any vibration what so ever. No tranny seal leak, nuthin'!

You can bank on the 06 will be checked out as soon as I order tires this week.

The joint you can buy seperately is from the Prarie 400 ATV and you can get aftermarket ones from Team Motorsports which have a grease fitting so you can grease them. They are not exactly identical to the 1500 Vulcan U-joint, but they still fit and work fine. The Vulcan u-joint is really understressed and should last a long long time, except that you can't grease them (and due to the manufacturing defects as Mac & I have mentioned.)

Anyhow, the driveshaft splines & rear hub splines, and rear gearcase oil, and rear tire ALL need maintenance more frequently than the swingarm, so personally I've never bothered installing the zerk. I just lube the needles while I've got the bike apart anyway & that's enough. Swingarm bearing wear has been very minimal. Far more minimal, in fact, than the swingarm bearing seal thrust surfaces which are what take up the side slop in the swingarm assembly. If you fit the zerk, shoot grease in the bearings, and never actually take the swingarm off, you can't replace those seals and the bike will eventually develop too much clearance there and wander on the road from a loose (sideways) swingarm. This is most noticible to me when the bike goes over road imperfections & it feels like the fork has squirmed sideways. It didn't. What happened is that the entire bike except the swingarm and rear wheel followed the front wheel when it was deflected.

I first figured this out when I disassembled the swingarm pivot and added shims outside of those swingarm pivot seals and found that once tightened up this squirming vanished.

[macmac]

It's no secret, that I don't like that set up where the back of a seal is also a thrust washer. I might make some washer shims, but i wonder if I should use a bronze or stainless.

I understand the rear arm still has to come down for lubing the splines, and the like, but I am a cheap bastard as you know and don't want to buy seals just because they get sloppy on the back side. If you ask me that was a real bone head move on Ma Cowy's part.

I actually made a set out of some stiff neoprene, which worked OK for a while, but eventually split out. I just got a new set of seals, and I'm going to make a new set of shims out of hard plastic.

Actually, niether bronze nor stainless is necessary IMO. The forces aren't that high, and the rubber part's gonna wear out first anyway.

[Idaho]

Lots of great replies here gents and I thank you for them. CQ you never cease to amaze me with your knowlege of these machines. Between you and BD I'd say that we have these things pretty well covered. Now I need to get back home on Friday to finish my maintenance and ride.

[macmac]

Well that is sort of the idea Cadd, With new seals one could wire brush off that ridge in the first place and with metalic spacers grease them every so often, and pretty much re-use the spacers over again. If I recall the ridges were about 1/16", maybe 1/32nd?

Bronxe would self lube as well i should think.. A dob of moly coat would about last forever unless the water gets deep..

[ringadingh]

You could make those shims out of that high density nylon, that cutting boards are made of. Its very durable and wears well,

Thanks, Idaho. Most of this is just from tearing things apart & putting them back together for 40+ years. Eventually you almost have to get good at it. ;)

Mac, from what I measured on both bikes there was about 0.08"~0.09" gap with brand new seals and about 0.125"~0.150" gap with seals that were pretty shot. There might have still been a few thousandths of rubber on the outside, but not much.

The one thing I wouldn't want to do is shim them so they catch with the shim and spin in the bores of the swingarm.What I'm looking to do is put (at least) two hard plastic shims on each side & lube between the shims only so they catch the metal & rubber but not each other; and therefore they take the wear, and my seals, swingarm, and frame do not.

Originally Posted by Ringadingh

You could make those shims out of that high density nylon, that cutting boards are made of. Its very durable and wears well,

That's a real good idea. What I've been looking for is some Nylatron GSM, which is ultra dense nylon infused with molybdinum di-sulfide. We used to use this for wear pads on telescoping cranes.

Unfortunately it's as rare as hen's teeth around these parts.