Need help on changing clutch fluid

[superduty]

Hi all,
It's hinting at spring here, so I set aside today for some bike maintenance. I'd not changed the coolant or brake fluid before, so I printed out the instructions and got those done. Seemed to go OK. I was going to change the clutch fluid out as well, but I can't find the slave cylinder. I see that it says it's behind the left side engine cover, but I can't get that off. Is there a trick to get to this?

Thanks

[jd01]

Changed and bled my clutch fluid recently. Removed the 4 bolts from the engine side cover. Also had to remove rear mounting bolt from left floorboard and just loosen the front bolt and let the rear of the floorboard hang down. Remove the heel shift pedal and toe shift pedal, noting the orientation of them before removing them. The side cover should then pull right off.

[macmac]

So far as I know there is no trick. The floor board and shifters need to be off. The cover might be stuck, and with a rag to hit with a no bounce hammer lighty tapping shoud get that cover off, so long as you got all the bolts.

Once you have, then use a turkey baster and lots of rags in the master to suck it dry, and get 0 BF on any paint you want to keep!

With tubing to fit the bleeder, run it into a clear container, and allow new BF to flow. Pump the lever slowly, if at all. Short stokes only, and watch out for feed back, No BF on any paints....

[superduty]

Thanks, it didn't connect that I needed to remove the shifter and floor board. I'll tackle that next. I did get all the bolts out, but the cover didn't loosen, so I thought I should ask here before I break something.

Built my confidence up by doing the front/rear brakes and the coolant change. I took a short 20 mi. test ride yesterday after buttoning it all back up and everything seems fine. No drips under the bike this morning either.

[macmac]

Seems odd the cover didn't fall off to me, where you would find the shifter and board to still be in the way. You sure you got all the bolts out? Vibrate it with a soft hammer i guess padded with a rag, so you don't cut the chrome up.

[trosco]

For those of you that are a little, shall we say, short cut prone here's something I have been doing on my cars and motorcycles since the early 80's.
Every spring I buy a quart of power steering fluid and a quart (at first had to get 1 of DOT 3 and 1 of DOT 4 but now everything I own uses the Syn stuff) of Brake Fluid. I get out my two "special" turkey basters (one for pwr steering fluid and other for brake fluid, don't mix them) and I empty out the resovoires for the brake, clutch and power steering. Then fill them with new fluid.
Don't touch or move or start anything till all the resevoires are refilled. I believe this eliminates the need to "change" the fluids in these systems.
You purests don't be hate'n now, I have done this for 41 years on my 69 Vette and did it for 21 years and 156,000 miles on my 86 Aspencade with absolutely no negative effects. Same is true on my 99 Dakota for 118,000 miles and the 02 Vette.
I also do the same thing when I replace disc brake pads being carefull to emply resevvoire before and after compressing caliper to install new pad and filling twice before and after depressing pedal to reset pads.

[clayton]

Trosco
So what you are saying is that you remove the covers and use your Turkey basters to remove the liquids and then fill them?
I will assume over time the "old" fluid will mix with the new and "refresh" all of the fluids through out the system.

[superduty]

Originally Posted by trosco

For those of you that are a little, shall we say, short cut prone here's something I have been doing on my cars and motorcycles since the early 80's....

I don't know trosco... When doing the front brakes, the fluid was pretty close to clear in the resevoir, but when I pulled it out at the bleeder fitting at the caliper, it was almost as dark as syrup. I'm not at all a mechanic, but it doesn't seem to me like it circulates through the system that much.

On a side note, I got one of those Mitey-Vac kits for Christmas and tried that out, but I think I had a vacuum leak somewhere in it. Didn't work so well to me. I then switched to a big syringe attached to the hose, per the alternate idea on Gadgets site, and found that to be more controlled.

[macmac]

Trosco , that will sort of work in larger systems, sort of.. What it won't do well is get any water that is heavier than BF, made from any consensation that may happen, and it won't get the black rubber bits of o ring seals on pistons or calipers.

The water if left for long enough will attack the metalic parts, and rubber bits will attack the o ring seals. Still it is better than nothing.

I agree using a turkey baster is a fine way to remove the old BF, and get more new BF started.

Some hints and methids I use, are not working hydralics to a froth, using say a short 13 mm wrench as a hammer to tap lines, and concentrate on any fittings in the line, where air bubbles may tend to hang.

I bleed both ways in effect, and move levers and pedals less than in use, incase there is a wear step. A wear step comes to be by the limited range of motion a working system does, and the step sometimes can shave a sliver of o ring.

On MC hydralics before I lever in I pause to allow any air to rise, and make just touch the lever so the metering valve gets to move a slight bit, which is enough to move an air bubble and break it to small enough to pass the metering valve and rise into the master.

Making a froth is a sin, and it will take a while for the froth to become a single bubble again.

On the case of a clutch, once you gain BF pressure, I like to crack the slave bleeder with the clutch spring holding the cluth disengaged. This way you get lever pressure and the spring pressure forcing air from both directions out the slave bleeders at the same time.

On subborn Saabs in the past I have used plain old time too, and most any more or less verical systems will self bleed in a time. This was a car known as Saab 95 and 96 all probably gone now, but there were tuff to get working well.

Bleeding is bleeding too, and I used to bleed say chevy trucks with No Bleeders on the rear brake cyls to, by line bleeding.

So far I have never bought or use vac pumps or pressure bleeders. Just a method and a plan.

The worst case is brand new parts, where it is like a brand new fish tank set up. You fill the tank with water and in a few hours there is air aginst the glass forming from air trapped in the openings in glass. We can't see those openings, but that don't mean they aren't there.

[trosco]

Super, Mac and Clayton (et all) The opinions I exress here are just that, my opionions. Some might say I have a lot of experience to base those opinions on, and others might say I am full of baloney!

I am only passing on a practice that has been sucessfull for me. You can on your car or motorcycle in 15 minutes a vehicle refresh your fluids once a year. It has been a sucessful practice for me.

DOT 3 (organic) brake fluid would suspend mosture. It was a real problem in the 60's & 70's and early 80's. That problem was a big part of the reason why I did the refresh each year but Dot 4 and the newer Syns don't have that problem. I have just stuck with it because it works. (for me)

Think about that in the caliper or the clucth slave cylinder, the fluid contained is subject to extreme high temps. Doesn't seem likely that the mosture contamination would happen there, it happens in those cold wet remote resevoires on our master cylinders. The place that the fluid most needs to be changed is in that resevoir. Sort of like the dirtiest and weakest antifreeze solution is in your over flow tank.

Periodically (every 30-40,000 miles or 3-4 years) you will do maint (new pads) on the brake system that will cause the system to be completely flushed/bled. I have decided that following my process means you don't have to do that in between times. And for about 40 years that has worked for me.

So if any of you find this to be a useful short cut cool. And those of you that think I am nuts ::) ....... well maybe you should go put a car tire on the back of your Nomad ... and then people will put you right there in the boat with me! (kidding guys!)

[macmac]

Well in 06 I bought a 86 van, and it had 15,500 miles on it. It was rust free and in Ar when I needed a rolling bedroom. it is likely I think you would agree, that the BF was never changed with that many miles.

To be fair I thought at first the clock went around and it ment 115,500 miles... i was proven wrong that the brake pedal wear wasn't showing, and took that as a new rubber pad.

The truth of the mater was the return springs were still in nice paint, and that the rear shoes were still in great shape

Then last hear with around 30,000 on the clock the left ft caliper seized. I did a 4 wheel brake flush and ith cured the sticky pistion. What I got out was black mung, from the rubber parts wearing. Water has a lower specific graviety than Bf does, and I tend to prefer to err on the side of caution.

No one is 100% , but you come as close as anyone I ever knew, this time I am still prefering to err on that side of caution is all.

The deal you do can work sort of. The only way I know how to say how is this way.

A sailor takes his jug to a tavern with it half full of water, and pays to have it filled with rum. he has a 50% solution of rum, and bitterly complains the run is watered down, and points to another keg. The tavern keeper dumps 1/2 the jug into the first keg, and re-fills from the new one and so no there is 75% RUM, AND AGAIN THE SAILOR complains *hit caps* and once more the tavern keeper does as reguested in yet another keg and the sailor has his 100% rum for 1/2 price.

Older auto trannies get this treatment since the torque converter can't be drained. (Not the modern flush)

[clayton]

LOL Trosco...that was good.
Are you Syn on both?
I just went to Syn oil and would like everything to become syn.
Thanks

[Cajunrider]

I used a Mity Vac for the front & rear brakes and clutch slave. Pulled from the bleeds while adding new fluid in the reservoirs until the fluid entering the vac container became clear. My reservoirs were clean. The fluid at the calipers and slave cylinder were dark brown.

[macmac]

Syn BF? No!!!!!!! No Dot 5 unless you change the seals first all of them, or don't care if you have any brakes!

Full syn oils you can do in the engine and the rear gears.

[superduty]

I used Prestone DOT 4 brake fluid and it says it's synthetic.

http://www.prestone.com/products/fun...ctionalFluids2