Voyager vs Ultra

[motomi1]

We can all complain about bikes, resale value, technology etc but the bottom line is the big four Japanese motorcycles are the most reliable and technologically advanced unless you need a lot more noise than just the wind and your pipes!
To complain about resale is a non-starter for me as I've always felt that if you have to worry about re-sale you shouldn't bother with a motorcycle of any brand unless you are a collector of rare old bikes.
The final truth to me is all bikes are machines and it doesn't matter what the brand, including BMW, they will fail under certain conditions be that age, misuse, tired parts or warranty items.
I have owned about 30 bikes in the 56years I've been riding and the three bikes I disliked most were: 1968 BSA Shooting Star 441, 1966 HD Sprint 350, and 2011 Kawasaki Vaquero 1700. The first two were undependable junk and the third I did not like for the hot weather action or lack thereof (it lost power in the heat of Arizona summer). The good part of the Vaquero was that I never doubted that it would start and get me to my destination it frustrated me because it didn't do it effortlessly.
I have switched to a Victory Vision and thus far have loved it for wind control, power, handling, fuel mileage and the fact that it looks far different than most bikes on the road. Time will tell whether this is an exceptional bike or not but the one thing I am sure of is that its unlikely to have high re-sale and I don't care!

[ponch]

Originally Posted by motomi1

We can all complain about bikes, resale value, technology etc but the bottom line is the big four Japanese motorcycles are the most reliable and technologically advanced unless you need a lot more noise than just the wind and your pipes!

Most reliable, yes, most technologically advanced, no. I will add that Victory did as well as any Jap bike in this year's CR survey.

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by ponch

who is your dealer?

Chandler H-D. Last time I went in there for an oil filter (a long time ago) I looked at their oil and was surprised they carried anything other than HD brand.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

Chandler H-D. Last time I went in there for an oil filter (a long time ago) I looked at their oil and was surprised they carried anything other than HD brand.

Yeah, I looked up at Amsoil and it was there. O'Reillys had a sale on VTwin last month, IIRC. I had already changed my oil and the 15w-50 is a good substitute if I need to. I haven't ridden too much this year anyway.

[BigAl1952]

Originally Posted by motomi1

We can all complain about bikes, resale value, technology etc but the bottom line is the big four Japanese motorcycles are the most reliable and technologically advanced unless you need a lot more noise than just the wind and your pipes!
To complain about resale is a non-starter for me as I've always felt that if you have to worry about re-sale you shouldn't bother with a motorcycle of any brand unless you are a collector of rare old bikes.
The final truth to me is all bikes are machines and it doesn't matter what the brand, including BMW, they will fail under certain conditions be that age, misuse, tired parts or warranty items.
I have owned about 30 bikes in the 56years I've been riding and the three bikes I disliked most were: 1968 BSA Shooting Star 441, 1966 HD Sprint 350, and 2011 Kawasaki Vaquero 1700. The first two were undependable junk and the third I did not like for the hot weather action or lack thereof (it lost power in the heat of Arizona summer). The good part of the Vaquero was that I never doubted that it would start and get me to my destination it frustrated me because it didn't do it effortlessly.
I have switched to a Victory Vision and thus far have loved it for wind control, power, handling, fuel mileage and the fact that it looks far different than most bikes on the road. Time will tell whether this is an exceptional bike or not but the one thing I am sure of is that its unlikely to have high re-sale and I don't care!

I like your write up and your right I don't care either. The resale went out years ago with bikes when one could buy a Harley and often get more in trade than he paid for it. I will say one thing about the Jap bikes they have forced other companys in the past to step up to the plate and make a bike that is dependable and will compete with them. I rode Jap bikes when it was looked down upon by anyone on a Harley. Some guys still do. I never felt that way even when I owned a Harley. I just like motorcycles and riding them. Al

[smokier]

...I rode Jap bikes when it was looked down upon by anyone on a Harley. Some guys still do. I never felt that way..

That about covers it. Just ride

Ride safe,
Smokier

[motomi1]

Originally Posted by ponch

Most reliable, yes, most technologically advanced, no. I will add that Victory did as well as any Jap bike in this year's CR survey.

The problem there is when you have technological advances but reliability becomes an issue and this is where the Japanese seem to excell.
The CR issue listed the Victory as close but still less reliable than the Japanese but quite a bit above the reliability of BMW, Ducati, and Triumph. Only time will tell whether this information will hold true in my case.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by motomi1

The problem there is when you have technological advances but reliability becomes an issue and this is where the Japanese seem to excell.

The CR issue listed the Victory as close but still less reliable than the Japanese but quite a bit above the reliability of BMW, Ducati, and Triumph. Only time will tell whether this information will hold true in my case.

The reliability issues on bmws isn't the high tech stuff, but usually vendor related and always bean counter related. Ducati and bmw make the highest tech bikes.

[gcsteve]

I am a fan of all the cruisers mentioned on this thread. I however I would say to jus test ride an Indian. Even if you don't like the look. My dealer gave me the keys(or I should say fob) to his personal ride and said see you later. The ride is excellent and the torque is unmatched for stock. The Victory is faster to 60mph but roll on above that is all Indian. Mine was very hot for first 700 -800 miles but now after stage one and 4000 miles on it, it is same if not cooler than the Nomad was. I always wanted a Victory but the engine noise always turned me off. I know you can get pipes and all but I like to hear my music. The Indian motor sounds better to me stock. Also you can browse all the used Harleys there. My dealer usually has around 3 on his showroom floor.lol

[gcsteve]

Indian does want you to buy their oil. It comes in a kit with 5 1/2 qts semi syn. with filter and crush washers. Its about 10 dollars more than I was spending changing oil in the Nomad. The down side is Indian is charging astronomical fees for work done such as changing tires ect. 400+ in some situaltions.The good news most are reporting getting 15,000 miles + out of the rear tires. Average for the Kawasakis seem to be less than 10,000.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by gcsteve

Indian does want you to buy their oil. It comes in a kit with 5 1/2 qts semi syn. with filter and crush washers. Its about 10 dollars more than I was spending changing oil in the Nomad. The down side is Indian is charging astronomical fees for work done such as changing tires ect. 400+ in some situaltions.The good news most are reporting getting 15,000 miles + out of the rear tires. Average for the Kawasakis seem to be less than 10,000.

$400 labor? Wow. That's a lot. Taking the wheels off my bike is easy and can be done on the center stand. I just bring the wheels to a motorcycle tire shop. I can't imagine it taking 4 hours to change tires and then there's the belt change interval. That's short. I like the bike, but cost of ownership and figuring out what I can do and what I can't figures into it with any bike and then there is the pros/cons list...I really shouldn't complain about my beemer so much.

[gcsteve]

That included the price of the tire too. But it still seems pretty steep.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by gcsteve

That included the price of the tire too. But it still seems pretty steep.

For just the rear? A set for me is around $425 if I bring the wheels.

[gcsteve]

This guy got a screw in his tire and posted this......
The*new tire was $350, labor came to $100, and luckily for me, they found that they didn't have an official 'Indian' inner tube in stock, I said lucky, because 'Indian' inner tubes are priced at an astounding $90 each....but they*managed to find a 'non-Indian' tube of the proper size somewhere else in town for $30.
so I will be getting my own tires and bring the wheels in to have them changed. Probably go to Kawasaki dealer for that. They were always fairly priced.

[OldSchool]

It boils down to what's important to you. Is it the ride or is it owning just the right motorcycle. That choice is yours. Its your money, you do with it what you please. The Harleys for me are not a good fit. They are too compact. I just rode the 2016's and they have either gotten "more" compact or I have expanded, or a combination of the both. But one thing Harley does have that I have to believe all other motorcycle companies envy is their network. So compare it to joining a country club. You are paying for the privilege of having the greatest dealer and parts network in the world. None of the other manufacturers can come close. No ones going to take that away from them anytime soon. H.O.G. is also a solid active membership that can be drawn on anywhere.