Vaquero running rougher after first service

[vangaans]

Think I found part of the problem, overfilled with oil. Just drained 400ml of oil out of the crank. I can now read the oil level on the stick.

Took the bike for a test ride and it's definitely more willing to rev but the coarseness is still there. Will try lowering the tyre pressures back to where they were before the service tomorrow night to see if that has any affect.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by vangaans

Think I found part of the problem, overfilled with oil. Just drained 400ml of oil out of the crank. I can now read the oil level on the stick.

Took the bike for a test ride and it's definitely more willing to rev but the coarseness is still there. Will try lowering the tyre pressures back to where they were before the service tomorrow night to see if that has any affect.

How did you check the oil? The engine needs to be hot and the skoot needs to be straight up and down or level, otherwise you get a false reading.

These 1700's have a semi-dry sump, and there are two drain plugs.

Run the engine till hot. Shut it down and let it set a few minutes, then stand it up level and check the oil level.

[vangaans]

Thanks Snake Ranch I did read the manual before checking the oil. ;)

Checked it several times, definitely overfilled. I just read that the plugs may become oiled up as a result, would explain a lot. Will add checking the plugs to the list!

[mbarr10]

Think I found part of the problem, overfilled with oil. I just read that the plugs may become oiled up as a result, would explain a lot

Oh......Ummm.....Ahh......I have to... go check the air I'm My snow blower.....Be right back.

[MET-RICK]

Originally Posted by vangaans

Thanks Snake Ranch I did read the manual before checking the oil. ;)

Checked it several times, definitely overfilled. I just read that the plugs may become oiled up as a result, would explain a lot. Will add checking the plugs to the list!

*** I copied this from an earlier post from someone else (cant recall who),regarding what was/is considered to be a good process for accurately checking/changing the oil, its proven to be very helpful and accurate for me. ...quote, ( "Kawasaki's method to check the oil is "odd" because the motor is a semi dry sump engine with 2 sections in the crankcase that store the oil. 1. The section below the crankshaft and 2. the transmission. These two sections in the crankcase are partitioned off from each other... however the seal between them is not 100%, oil leaks between the sections when the bike is not running.

How it works.
When the engine is running oil is pumped from the tranny thru the oil filter, thru the engine and finally into the sump in the crankcase. The oil pump in the sump serves as a scavenger pump and pumps the oil back into the tranny and it starts all over again. So when the engine is running very little oil remains the crankcase sump.

Now when you shut the engine off, over time oil from the tranny seeps back into the sump. After long enough time half the oil will be in the sump and the other in the tranny. This allows oil to be in the sump to bath the crank shaft on cold starts.

So if you check your oil on a cold engine that has not been started you won't get an accurate reading because oil has seeped from the tranny and into the sump and the oil dip stick is in the tranny where half the oil has seep into the sump. In order to get an accurate reading you need to run the engine to pump all the oil out of the sump and back into the tranny.

Now that we know that we can check the oil cold. First use the procedure in the owners manual and make sure the oil is up to the full mark... add oil if necessary. Then the next day when the engine is cold start the engine for 15 seconds with the bike on the side stand. This is done to pump all the oil out of the sump into the tranny. Now wait 2-3 minutes to allow the oil to drain back into the tranny and check the oil level on the dip stick. Wherever the level is on the dipstick is the full mark on the engine cold and on the side stand. Mark it or remember where that level is and you can use the cold method and not burn you fingers using the Kawasaki's hot method.

The key here is consistency, check the oil on level ground and the bike angle on the side stand the same each time and you will get a consistent reading. What you can't compensate for is the ambient temperature. Oil does expand and contract, if you check your oil using this method you'll learn where the winter/summer level is on the stick. It doesn't really matter how you check the oil if you know where the full mark should be in your method and you're consistent." ) cheers

[vangaans]

Thanks for the in-depth reply Met-Rick, I do appreciate it and a great tip for checking the oil cold. (I'm currently checking the oil using a workman's glove, that dipstick gets hot!)

Also explains why I got a different reading this morning when I re-checked the oil (there's still too much in it) and why you need to check it exactly 3 minutes after warming up the engine. Last night I checked the oil, siphoned some out, checked it again, siphoned more out etc and kept going til the oil level was low enough to read on the high/low marking on the dipstick, probably 10 - 20 minutes later. Understanding that the oil was draining into the sump over that time explains why it was still showing overfull this morning after checking exactly 3 minutes after engine shut off.

Will drain some more out tonight to try and get it reading properly on the dipstick. Actually I'm also surprised how dirty the oil is, considering it had only had fresh oil and filter several days ago. The oil is black!

Spoke to the dealer this morning who have offered to re-do the oil, filter and go completely over the bike but I explained my reluctance to let them at it again.

Will keep you posted.

[plumber63]

I would drain it all out. and refill measuring it in, then you know you are good.
Sounds like the mechanic didn't change the oil just added some new. You may not even got a new filter.
I might even take it back and have them do it, but I would have to watch it being done.

[vangaans]

"I would drain it all out. and refill measuring it in, then you know you are good."

That's what my gut's telling me to do plumber63, but part of me wants to see some value for the $200 I paid for the first service.

[altadrifter]

my guess is (depending on overfull it is) is that they only removed one drain plug leaving dirty oil in the one sump (which may explain why your oil looks so dirty)

[vangaans]

"my guess is (depending on overfull it is) is that they only removed one drain plug leaving dirty oil in the one sump (which may explain why your oil looks so dirty)"

Bingo! That's what I believe has happened altadrifter but they reckon they did both sump plugs when I quizzed them about it this morning.

[vangaans]

UPDATE:
Ended up siphoning close to 2 litres of oil out of the bike before it would read properly on the dip stick.
Engine is spinning freer but still not firing as clean as it was.
Bike is back at the dealer, will let you know what they find.

[MET-RICK]

Originally Posted by vangaans

UPDATE:
Ended up siphoning close to 2 litres of oil out of the bike before it would read properly on the dip stick.
Engine is spinning freer but still not firing as clean as it was.
Bike is back at the dealer, will let you know what they find.

*** just wondering...at any time did you or the dealer check the air filter/box for oil that may have ended up in there from the oil being over filled (pcv), which would definitely make for a less than optimum fuel/ air mixture and a ruffer running and poorly responding engine. I found that this had happened when I over filled the first time I was trying to sort out the oil level/oil change situation. Good luck with this issue, cheers.

[vangaans]

Thanks Met-Rick, one of the first things I checked. Thankfully Air box and filter were clean and dry.

[vangaans]

UPDATE:
Heard from the dealer today, said they've been all over the bike and found the fuel pump is faulty and is not pumping enough fuel. It's contaminated with crystalized material... perhaps old fuel? The spark plugs also showed signs of lean running and they are replacing those.

My bike is a runout model, bought new about 4 weeks ago but it was actually built in late 2014 and has been sitting in a box since that time. If Kawasaki ships their bikes with some fuel in the tank, contaminated fuel would be the most likely culprit.

Kawasaki Australia have no fuel pumps to suit in the country, a new fuel pump is being air freighted out of Japan but will take two weeks to get here. I'll be without a bike for two weeks but if it sorts out the problem it will be well worth it.

I'll keep you posted!

[highwayman2011]

Do yourself a favor and change your own oil going forward. Warm it up remove both drain plugs and the filter, allow to drain well, replace drain plugs, put on a new oil filter, put in 5 quarts of oil and ride.