To be continued...

[ballbreaker]

Hey Eugene. Was wondering why you think the K&N filters are worse than the OEM filters. What is that based on. Thanks

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by ballbreaker

Hey Eugene. Was wondering why you think the K&N filters are worse than the OEM filters. What is that based on. Thanks

Just practice. I used both for a prolonged time and the funnel duct was dusty with K&N, unlike stock filter.

[ballbreaker]

I will have to check that out.

[DragonLady58]

Originally Posted by smokier

Greetings,


According to friends of mine who own a dealership. Motorcycle sales dropped off a couple of years ago. Sales have not recovered or rebounded. Yamaha all but dropped the STAR line due to lack of sales, save the VENTURE. Honda doesn't have a big cruiser line-up anymore. Kawasaki is probably saving R&D money, putting in market segments that ARE still moving. Side-by-side, Sportbikes, etc. The HD and Polaris (Indian) line-ups seem stagnant as well. Yes, the Challenger is relatively new, but one new bike in four years...???


I don't know of course, just a correlation of information and observations.


It is a sad thought , for those of us who do ride two wheeled cruisers and tourers.


Ride safe,found one
Smokier

thats why some of us use grab the older used baggers and rebuild them....I have a old HD Duo-Glide in boxes....Have a Antique Tag for it.
Wonder when they outlaw the gas engine if we'll be able to rebuild our bikes and ride them under the old classic/antique laws and tags?

K&N filters, hold them up to the light, try and look thru the filter, especially around the edges. If you can see thru it in places, just move on to the next. Last K&N filter I bought had one, looked thru 2 before I found a passing filter....

[ballbreaker]

Now you have me thinking. I usually have one cleaned and oiled and just replace until I clean and oil the backup. Thanks Dragonlady 58

[buckey1313]

I do not believe there is any longer any monies available at Kawasaki to update this machine based on sales. The fact is that the Heavy Cruiser Market is slowly eroding away as purchasers of these heavy bikes get older and die off. It mainly is our age that has been buying these bikes that weigh in at close to or over 900 lbs.

Some on here like me have had to make alternative choices if we want to still do the love of our life riding a bike. We have had to go to three wheeled bikes or smaller not as heavy bikes that weigh half the weight to enjoy out passion.

I have been predicting this for a number of years the the type of bike that had large sales years ago will make a come back. The Yamaha Virago, Honda Shadow, Suzuki Intruder. Do not say at 65 or older you are going to have the body of Billy Idol and be able to lift the massive weight. I going through that change now partly because of Diabetes but allot has to do with age. You will want to get rid of the heavy cruiser and buy something lighter.

I believe if the companies want to stay in the cruiser market the heavy cruiser market is going to practically dry up and they will have to come back to the era of 2000 and bring back the light weights. That is if they even care about us owning a bike once age creeps up on us. They could just walk away totally.

Do I like the change I have had to make and what do I miss. The sound of the Freedom True Duals, big cruiser look, and that is about it. I have gotten to love my light weight bike it handles allot better in a parking lot and other than wind gusts on the road also with Progressive shock updates rides like a Goldwing now. It is fast from bottom end with ECU replacement and carb and jet update. The sound when sitting on bike or riding it is not there but when a friend passes me with my bike with the Cobra Pipes wow is it sweet. The seating with my Corbin Seat is not a Russel Day Long but it is pretty dang good. The mileage is good but the small tank is a bother. Put the pros and cons together which do I prefer now hands down I hated my new light weight when I got it and now I would never go back to a heavy weight bike even if I was a young man. So much more fun and less effort. I love it now and prefer it.

[recumbentbob]

I agree buckey. My local dealer still has a 2018 Voyager he can't sell.

[buckey1313]

I also agree with you recumbentbob. We have two dealers in the Edmonton area and I do not remember a dealer not selling one of the Vulcans in the last few years here at a greatly reduced price. Hoping service and some accessories will help them make some money.

Here up north in the great white north it is the 4 wheeled variety of off road products they are mostly interested in other than some of the crotch rockets and off road bikes that sales are much greater than the cruiser market. Here in Alberta I believe all they bring in is two for each store of the Vulcan 1700. They sit and sit and at end of season the price goes down they never sell them at full retail value.

I know Harley will survive as someone will always buy them give them a shot then someone else will take the helm and on it goes. With all the eggs in one basket really with Indian and Harley humm wonder how they will do. The producer of Indian has allot of other products they can rely on I guess to make it through tough times. Will the Indian survive this time round or once again as is the fate of this motorcycle will it be dropped for years in name and go on the back burner.

With covid having happened this does cut into the amount of money that will be spent in the motorcycle market. It is not going to be a great 2021 season in sales I would imagine for dealers as when does this end and cruisers are made for doing exactly that not just touring around town. Here in Canada there are people wrecking cars from out of province because they are pissed you are here in another province not staying home and staying put. So would I travel right now to another spot of our beautiful country no way am I going to and my friends say the same. Cruising is not going to happen in 2021 I figure we all still will be on some sort of lock down in a way. Things will not change for a long while this is not short term. Why would you buy a cruiser when you can not do what the name says.

[andyvh1959]

The market is changing to lighter bikes, and Harley "was" ready to respond. The new Bronx model with a water cooled 1000cc Revolution engine was ready for production. Yet Harley chose to delay the Bronx to instead release the Panamerica 1200 Revolution adventure into a market flush with similar models from all the big four Japanese and major Euro brands with long established models. They'll sell a few but not the numbers they could have sold with the more "standard" Bronx.

[Chuck A.]

Originally Posted by Eugene

Nevertheless, Voyager looks still nice..............

Couple years ago I went to a local Harley dealer for a benefit ride. Had a lady come over to me and told me I had the best looking Harley there. She had been in the dealership and didn't see one like it. Ask had I done alot of upgrades to it. I couldn't refuse telling her it was a test model for the new Harley look.

[buckey1313]

andyvh1959 Harley for some reason just cannot get cruiser out of their mindset as that is main focus and their problems in getting more into the bike market place and offering more varied models. They tried with the Buell and failed to focus efforts with the brand in Harley dealerships and really did not want the brand in those dealerships. It was doomed to fail since Harley did not support their race brand motorcycle. Again Harley proved they had a one track focused mindset and cancelled the brand in 2009 with little effort put forth.

We all know Harley basically has the cruiser market to sell to and the police branded motorcycles are a big share in that market. They just cannot or are not willing to take the time and effort to stop pegging themselves out of the mindset of cruisers that is shrinking in sales with added competition they virtually only cater to one segment of the market place. Indian is close to doing that also as heck guys they do not really have a sport bike to offer either as where is the plastic that aerodynamic that the public wants.

It will be very interesting in what happens in next couple years to the bike market place in general in North America I believe some big changes will be coming soon.

[hlknvlcn60]

If you do not get the Ivan flash and change your exhausts, be prepared for obnoxious and embarrassing backfires! The flash will completely eliminate that nuisance. You will have a cooler running engine that will deliver better fuel mileage and better passing grunt in 6th gear as well. I have had my Vaquero breathing through both the Roaring Toyz and Chuckster's tear drop intake and exiting through the Freedom true dual exhaust now for quite sometime. The performance is great and with the intake inhaling through a K&N filter, improved power abounds. There will be no shortage of longevity whatsoever to the engine with the K&N filter, as long as it remains cleaned properly and oiled correctly on a regular basis. Engine longevity is mostly dependent on your engine oil being changed out whenever it comes up to get long engine life. I am still running the stock spark plugs with less than 30,000 miles and the engine still runs like a beast. I have a new set of NGK iridium replacement plugs on the ready. So point being, if you do the flash, pipes and air, you will notice instant overall better performance and fuel economy right off the get go. Just keep in mind, the flash does advance the ignition timing so if you get it done, you will need to run premium fuel.

[andyvh1959]

Harley CEO announced just last week that HD is pulling out of new models and stop trying to attract younger riders. So the Bronx, Panamerica, perhaps even the Street 500 and 750 may be stalled, or out. HD plans to reduce the number of models of the current model list, reduce staff, even reduce the number of dealers. Basically HD is doing anything to reduce cost so current sales of traditional Harley products can bring them back to profitability. The Sportster plane in Kansas City closed within the past two years. The Capital Drive plant in Milwaukee closed long ago and moved production to the now Engine/Drivetrain plant (the old Briggs & Stratton plant in Menomonee Falls WI). Makes me wonder what HD will do about the York PA and Tomahawk WI facilities. Gotta cost a lot of bucks to ship every engine/drivetrain to York PA to assemble in the chassis and finish the bike. All the painted parts come from Tomahawk WI (a very small town about 200 miles NW of Milwaukee), and are shipped to Menomonee Falls or York to be assembled onto the chassis. There has to be a LOT of cost savings in consolidating production in one location. The engineering/design facility is just north of the old Capital Drive plant in Milwaukee, and the administration building is still on Juneau Avenue in Milwaukee. Harley has to focus on cutting costs to gain profitability, because current motorcycle sales wont do it. Even brand new models like the Bronx and Panamerica, or the 350cc bike in India (all non-trditional Harleys) won't save Harley now, this late in the game. Harley is also pulling the plug on the 350cc bike to be built in India for the SE Asia market. Harley has been bleeding for a long time, hope they can regain profitability and survive.

Last week, a Harley/BMW in Beaver Dam WI, Mishcler's, announced they are closing by the end of December. Art Mischler had a buyer from Illinois lined up to take over the business, but Harley nixed the sale. Mischler's was a 2nd generation shop his dad Bill had started way back in the 50's. Art had his brand new facility open up back in the last 90's during the heyday of boutique Harley shops. I recall Art saying he never before had to plan for dressing rooms, his/hers bathrooms, sales manager office, etc. His old shop was a classic old style steel paneled building, no brick, sales counters were very old grocery store style wood and glass. The one bathroom was out back through the shop, and it looked the part of a bathroom in a bike shop. Loved the old place.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by hlknvlcn60

If you do not get the Ivan flash and change your exhausts, be prepared for obnoxious and embarrassing backfires! The flash will completely eliminate that nuisance. You will have a cooler running engine that will deliver better fuel mileage and better passing grunt in 6th gear as well. I have had my Vaquero breathing through both the Roaring Toyz and Chuckster's tear drop intake and exiting through the Freedom true dual exhaust now for quite sometime. The performance is great and with the intake inhaling through a K&N filter, improved power abounds. There will be no shortage of longevity whatsoever to the engine with the K&N filter, as long as it remains cleaned properly and oiled correctly on a regular basis. Engine longevity is mostly dependent on your engine oil being changed out whenever it comes up to get long engine life. I am still running the stock spark plugs with less than 30,000 miles and the engine still runs like a beast. I have a new set of NGK iridium replacement plugs on the ready. So point being, if you do the flash, pipes and air, you will notice instant overall better performance and fuel economy right off the get go. Just keep in mind, the flash does advance the ignition timing so if you get it done, you will need to run premium fuel.

On the subject of the K&N filter, You might want to check out two things.

I bought one. But found out there is a design flaw with the plastic frame work that supports the filter media.

Take an OEM filter and try to flex or bend the frame. You can't because the plastic is ridged.

With the K&N filter you can bend the plastic while it is cold, and as it warms up it will get softer. So it will not keep enough pressure on the "O"seal to prevent dirt from bypassing.

When the filter is installed, the plastic of either filter comes in contact with a small "O"ring seal in the groove that locates the filter.

There is not enough structural rigidity with the K&N filter to keep an air tight seal in the 4 corners of the filter structure.

With the OEM there is the structure rigidity to keep the seal compressed.

The first filter I received leaked dirt past the 4 corners leaving 4 small dirt tracks into the intake system.

I called K&N on this problem. They wanted pictures of the dirt tracks and filter. They sent me a new filter. It was made from the same soft plastic. When I called them about this filter being the same, they didn't want to talk to me any more.

I tossed the K&N filters in the trash and put the OEM filter back in.

For me that fixed the problem.

[andyvh1959]

Kind of interesting, the Voyager and Vaquero don't change much year to year, paint changes (ala Harley) and everyone wonders when the updated models are coming out. Current Harleys look like Harleys of 20 years ago, to the unknowing eye, and everyone remains ga-ga over them until the market tanked and COVID showed up. Yet, the Voyager and Vaquero are upstaged by the Eluder (weird name) and newest Harley's, so perhaps some updates are timely. Harley, for one, has decided to stay the course of big, classic, typical Harley's and just start chopping models and expenses to return to profitability. So it seems Harley still sees a big cruiser market, perhaps as the current 35+ year old riders eventually grow into a big cruiser. That indicates its time for Kawasaki to update the Voyager and Vaquero beyond paint. Aside from my VN1600 Classic, I think the Vaquero is the best looking non-Harley overall on the market.