Indian info as requested by ponch

[RACNRAY]

You'll have to tell us more in the Off Topic area. I have been toying with the idea of getting a second bike. I'd keep my RT and get a cruiser. Been thinking about a FLHP or FLHTP as first choices, Road King as a second. I think the Indians are probably more reliable over the long haul and maybe easier to live with, but they are just as expensive and don't have quite the fit and finish of the HD. IDK. What's the belt life like on them and I've read the manual and it showed 30k mile replacement intervals on the Indian, which seems short and 20w-40 oil, which is an odd weight. Just like to get your insight into owning one. Look forward to your response.
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Ponch

I think even a short review here would be a positive thing. Most of us have moved on beyond the Nomad and Kawasaki's in general. As far as the challenger goes, I've heard they put off a lot of heat and they have a limited color availabilty. I wouldn't be interested in the 29k dollar model and the cheaper one only comes in gray. I have a silver motorcycle and I hate neutrals. I think they can do better that way.
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Ponch

To refresh I bought an Indian Chieftain Dark Horse in June 2016, and i currently have 75,213 smiles on it. Would have more but 4 surgeries in 2018 kept me off the skoot and had me doing less than normal miles during the recovery periods.


SO HERE GOES....I had my Vaq for 5 years and parked it with 100,031 miles. In all those years it was a labor of love as since i admit to being a Dr. Frankenstein i turned that Vaq into one helluva hotrod. At 95,000 miles it was on my dyno gettin a new tune for a cool plenum intake i designed and it still made 88 H.P! That skoot compared to a stocker, well there was absolutely NO COMPARISON! I am damn proud of that skoot and do miss some aspects of it. The frame mounted fairing has a definite advantage in handling windy and gusty conditions, turbulence off other vehicles. There is a bit more of a "workout" when riding in those conditions with the fork mounted fairing on the Indians, but totally tolerable. But I do miss the Vaq's stability. I miss those damn glove boxes! I really do. And when i "moved out" of the Vaq's saddlebags i sadly found out that the Indian's bags don't hold as much.

One aspect where the Indian is FAR superior is in handling, suspension compliance and overall chassis performance. This thing absolutely rocks in the twisties with NO chassis flex that the Kawi's have. A good quality Fox air/spring shock in the back that holds it's air pressure far better than on the 1700's, with better damping. The fork is massive and has no flex as do the 1700's. The Indian is far less top heavy feelin too.

VERY GOOD ABS brakes tho I did warp the cheap front rotors (as i have on 90% of my skoots) and were replaced under warrantee. NO ONE has replaced drive belts that I know of and i am on the original belt. The OEM tires make the stock Kawi B/STONES look the equal of moped tires. Mine came with Dunlop E3's, I got 15k outa the rear and 28,000 outa the front!

The stock seat was fine for 4k or so until the cheap soft foam packed out, so as i had on my Vaq a Corbin has been on for over 3 years. It has finally broken in LOL! I have a 2" taller Klockwerks flare shield which is a vast improvement over stock and LET ME TELL YOU THIS...that height adjustable windshield is the shit. And I really mean it. I am so spoiled, it is low in the city and depending on speed and wind can be adjusted higher. Did i say i am spoiled? The overall wind protection on this Indian is NOT as good as on the Vaq, but the Chieftain line up does not have any kind of lower, so the wind sneaks up from below the fairing. Those side cowls on the Vaq really do work but for me they made the bike look too bulky. The electric locks on the saddle bags are a nice thing to have, a very nice thing!

I am on MANY Indian facebook pages and on a very popular forum, NOT ONE SINGLE TRANSMISSION PROBLEM ( i.e.none jumping outa gear) and again not one single complaint of front end wobble as on the 1700's, to be attributed to the stout cast aluminum frame, superior suspension and factory stock tapered steering head bearings.

I did have a, believe it or not "made in USA" speaker go bad in the first year so instead of gettin warranted i just went to a local audio store and got a pair that were just a little bit better than the stockers. The Indians have a pretty decent quality 100 watt system that serves me well with no need to upgrade. There are some crazy ones out there that have turned theirs into "earsplittinloudenboomers" tho!

These Indians have what are called "dog ring" trannies, the gears are NOT moved when shifting and make the Kawi's shifting feel like some ancient industrial contraption. But I DO MISS the hydraulic clutch, a bike this expensive should be hydraulic.

Engine and performance wise there is good and bad. The TS111 engine IS CERTAINLY NOT a marvel of modern technology, far from it. The poopoo combustion chamber design and air cooling means the air fuel mixture is quite lean, performance suffers with lotsa heat. If u'all think the RBW setting of the Kawi's are bad, mine was so bad i wanted to add pedals! This has been addressed by Indian in the last 2 years with 3 drive by wire modes, rain, standard and hold the f@#k on! The long stroke design produces a nice flat tork curve and is really a jewel. WHEN UNPLUGGED and tuned. A set of s/ons, removing the cat from the header (NOT FUN) or an aftermarket header, a good intake and a HUGE advantage DynoJet has provided us with is the PV3 flash tuner. D/J i s continuing to hack into the Bosch ECU and has provided the opportunity to access what's inside. I have modified the RBW tables, altered engine rev limit,cold start fuel enrichment and turned this into a really well running engine with 45+ mpg average by flashing new parameters into the ECU. We are also lucky in the camshaft department as a few aftermarket cams are available along with Indian's own stg2 and stg3 cams. I have the stg 3 cams and those things are the bomb!

As far a oil, as long as at least a 40 wght is used there is just no reason to concern oneself with viscosity. REMEMBER...MOST MANUFACTURES have "recommended" viscosities. There is generally no harm in increasing viscosity or decreasing the "W" spec. I have run 10-40,20-50, 15-50, 15-60 and have settled on Klotz 15-60 in the hot months and 10-40 in the milder months.

Overall this is a fine machine with advantages over the Vaq but their are also a few things i miss. For me, the styling of the Vaq got old, real old, i was always trying to make it please my eyes. From the back i was happy, nice ass but the front grew on my in a bad way. Here at 4 yo the Indian just makes me smile not only when i ride it, but when i look at it. The Vaq got me into the bagger cruiser scene, this Indian is filling in the gaps the Vaq could never do.

RACNRAY

[ponch]

I think they've made some changes with the new ones. Different bags, different seat, redesigned dash layout. There's also the Challenger. Totally different animal. I like the dash layout of the Challenger, but the looks from the front require acquiring the taste. A You Tuber named Traveling Tall got a Challenger for a month and reviewed it. He rides a 124" Street Glide. He had some interesting comments. How is the aftermarket for accessories on the Indian? Seems the Indian branded stuff is 2x what HD is, which is hard to believe. Indian also has the 116 too, but from what I have read of dyno numbers, it's kind of tame. Traveling Tall did an episode where he went to Lloyds, now in NC. They were getting crazy numbers from Indians.

So will you keep it when you go over 100k miles or get something else?

[RACNRAY]

WELL...I forgot to mention I have ridden a few Challengers and let me tell you, it not only hands down trumps my Indian but make the Kawi's look as ancient as their 2007 technology. It is the Vaq on massive steroids!!! Here are some of my thoughts...

Unbelievable wind protection, an even better audio system due to better placement of the speakers, incredible handling, chassis stability and suspension compliance. One test ride I was stuck for almost 20 minutes in Fort Lauderdale stop n go rush hour traffic and engine heat was never a thought or concern, I felt NOTHING!!

My only complaints were Indian/Brembo's front brake pad compound choice, really disappointed in front brake performance considering 320mm rotors, but a change to EBC's or equivalent would make me happier!

Having been spoiled with having access to the RBW tables and spending time tailoring them with the PV3 on my skoot the std and sport modes left a little to be desired, but most are VERY happy with them.

As far as this skoot making it to 100k, I dunno. The Challenger is an incredible skoot, a vast improvement on my Indian and even moreso the ole Vaq. Magazines tests show 105-108 H.P. and 110-113 pnds tork for the Challenger....YEEHAW Cycle World just did a test on and Indian with the 116 and got 102 pound-feet of torque and 82 hp on their dyno.

Just as getting an Indian lurked in the back of my mind after test riding one in Nov 2013 while owning my Vaq, that Challenger is doing the same!

RACNRAY

[The Black Knight]

Thanks for the info, mate.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

WELL...I forgot to mention I have ridden a few Challengers and let me tell you, it not only hands down trumps my Indian but make the Kawi's look as ancient as their 2007 technology. It is the Vaq on massive steroids!!! Here are some of my thoughts...

Unbelievable wind protection, an even better audio system due to better placement of the speakers, incredible handling, chassis stability and suspension compliance. One test ride I was stuck for almost 20 minutes in Fort Lauderdale stop n go rush hour traffic and engine heat was never a thought or concern, I felt NOTHING!!

My only complaints were Indian/Brembo's front brake pad compound choice, really disappointed in front brake performance considering 320mm rotors, but a change to EBC's or equivalent would make me happier!

Having been spoiled with having access to the RBW tables and spending time tailoring them with the PV3 on my skoot the std and sport modes left a little to be desired, but most are VERY happy with them.

As far as this skoot making it to 100k, I dunno. The Challenger is an incredible skoot, a vast improvement on my Indian and even moreso the ole Vaq. Magazines tests show 105-108 H.P. and 110-113 pnds tork for the Challenger....YEEHAW Cycle World just did a test on and Indian with the 116 and got 102 pound-feet of torque and 82 hp on their dyno.

Just as getting an Indian lurked in the back of my mind after test riding one in Nov 2013 while owning my Vaq, that Challenger is doing the same!

RACNRAY

If you look at the Traveling Tall video at Lloyds, he says the challenger is good for something like 200hp with the stock crank and block. Built very well. The 116 doesn't even do as well as the HDs really. Maybe about what a 107 does. 4 valves per cylinder help. I saw HD is going to VVT soon. Anyway, the Challenger engine is a lot farther ahead.

[MAS Tequila]

My vote goes for FLHP, which IS a Road King.

In March 2018 I paid $9200 for a 2016 FLHP with 9000 miles on it, at Rossmeyer’s during Bike Week.

Best bike I’ve ever had.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by MAS Tequila

My vote goes for FLHP, which IS a Road King.

In March 2018 I paid $9200 for a 2016 FLHP with 9000 miles on it, at Rossmeyer’s during Bike Week.

Best bike I’ve ever had.

Jerry Palladino has a FLHP and FLHTP. He says they're only 20k new. He just bought a FLHTP. The new ones have the 114, RDRS and the 3" travel shocks. I think it's a winner, especially for the money.

[RACNRAY]

As of today...86,470 smiles. Will I match 100k at the 5 year mark (June 2012) as I did on the Vaq? I am on vacation this week so will divide my riding time between the Busa and Indian.

[ponch]

Sounds good. Have you had to repair much? How's the oil consumption?

[RACNRAY]

No repairs but LOTS of mods, not much different than what I did with the Vaq. Except cams and valve springs, cams go in easy, bout a 3 hour job, but engine had to be dropped to swap out the springs.
Indian did not fit as stout of a clutch as in the 1700's as early on in my ownership, with my custom intake and my custom exhaust couple of Harleys cams a huntin. As I was bangin thru the gears speed shifting there was some slippage. The Indian has less plate count thus less surface area than the 1700's, but a Barnett kit has it fixed.
The Indians as a whole dn't burn oil, and neither does mine. Oil changes every 5k miles.
RACNRAY